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Electricity For Free?

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  • Electricity For Free?

    Good morning gentlemen,
    In the latest issue of Farm Show there is a story about a couple of Australian guys who claim to have built a machine that produces more electricity than it uses. The artical says that they have been granted U.S. patents. What do you think? Have the laws of physics been bent or broken? Or have these two pulled one over on the patent office?
    To invent, you need a good imagination - and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison

  • #2
    Didn't some guy from Australia get a patent on the wheel a couple of years back? My gas powered generator already makes more electricity than it uses. I figure you may be thinking in the right direction.


    • #3
      The US patent office has for a while been apparently hiring folks who can't get a job at a burger joint.

      I have seen more bad patents than I care to talk about. In our biz, there was a patent granted that had a number of claims identical to another earlier patent. They should have been thrown out.

      Other areas, like plant-related areas, have similar problems. Broad patents are issued for well-known prior art that has been minimally "re-packaged".

      AND, in some court districts, it is known that they never throw out patents uexcept for gross prior disclosures. So you might have to actually pay a patent holder on a bum patent, or spend 2 million trying to overthrow it, and likely failing.

      The US patent office is clearly on the downslide toward the dark ages. Uneducated personnel, corruption will be next, if it is not already there. Third world stuff, folks...........


      • #4
        Corruption started the patent office.

        A patent gives you NO protection, It does give you legal rights when you sue the copier for infringement. YOu must bring case yourself. A patent once accepted is public domain. This makes it available to anyone who wishes to copy your ideal. The invention patent attorneys do just that.
        There are multiple ways of doing anything, but the ideals to do them are rare. The Ideal is the valuable part.
        A local orthoscopic surgical instrument producer, he will not patent his invention so it won't become widepspread copied. He has a certified letter mailed to himself in the safe, if the need arises he will open it in court. Once he found out I was a gadget maker, he got me off his property. He was afraid I would steal his invention.


        • #5
          We hear a lot about these crazy things, that can make more than amount put in. The laws of conservation of matter and engery tell us different.
          If it's too good to be true, then it most likely it is.

          Patents are a legal recognition of somebodies work. I have people who beat me over the head with their ideas and then warn me off that their work is patent pending, and that legal action will be taken with me if I try to take there ideas. I don't accept work from any of these folks. If they offer a piece of the action, run as fast as you can, that means they are broke and have no money.
          At university I worked with a couple of inovative people who had several patents, they found the money for proto typing, for research making a final working version and the cost of doing the filing with the patent office. They paid for every thing, had massive amounts of documentation, and many of the things that they patented, generated no meaning full income if any.



          • #6
            it's easy to produce more electricity than you use. turn on a motor generator set. the real question is do they claim to produce more energy than the device consumes. perpetual motion again. next thing you know they will have anti gravity drives.


            • #7
              <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by robert phillips:
              Next thing you know they will have anti gravity drives.</font>
              Got one of them

              Couple of weeks ago got out the bath, stopped to put the coal back in [ UK joke ] and went downstairs. About three steps down my left foot slipped on the wooden steps. [ Still sober at this point ]
              Stuck my leg thru the old original Victorian spindled stair case and fell arse over tit to the bottom, hitting my arse and elbow on every step on the way down.

              Whilst lying at the bottom saying something like O golly, O gosh, this giant pigmey stands at the top of the stairs and throws every spindle down I'd ripped out with my leg and bounced every one but one on my noggin. I shall't say where the last one ended up. That was certainly a good test drive of my anti gravity device

              Moral of the story is: Leave the damn coal in the bath and stay in the workshop, it's bloody safer.

              John S.


              Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.


              • #8
                FYI, every source I have ever checked with, including my attorney, has repeatedly assured me that a letter mailed to oneself has no legal weight whatsoever. Witnesses are much more useful, and can testify in court.
                Location: North Central Texas


                • #9
                  The letter is worthless.

                  What IS ok, is to keep a notebook and write everything in it. When you have a good idea, describe it in the notebook, and date it

                  Have another person who can understand it read your description and sign and date the page. Keep the book locked up, of course, and non-disclosures may be needed.

                  Nolo press have a book called "patent it yourself" or some such, which is pretty good. They describe the notebook thing.

                  As far as free electricity and anti-gravity, I have no assumption that they are impossible.

                  What I do have is an assumption that energy cannot be created from nothing. In other words, SOMEONE or something is going to supply the energy for that "free" electricity.
                  It might be some newly discovered process for creating electricity, but it cannot "create" the energy, it can only "find" and "use" it.

                  Finally, folks that are sure you will steal their great ideas are usually (not always) cranks who have other problems as well, like a very loose link to reality.


                  • #10
                    I am under the imprression that the patent office will patent anything, new and novel and not self evident EXCEPTING prepetual motion machines. Some (preptual motion machines) have been patented by careful wording of the claims. The courts then decide if the patent is really new etc.

                    Wasn't it the inventor of the grid in vaccum tubes that lost many years later becasue his claims were not correct- he did the invention alright but was not protected becasue his theory was wrong? I think patents only protect those with need AND money to sue. But my info is years old ad the laws have changed greatly in recent years- but the changes lessen the power to enforce patents, especially between countries.


                    • #11
                      R.Phillips, This is a quote from the story in Farm Show "It reportedly produces about 1,000 watts per hour more than it uses." and "they figure Lutec 1000 owners will be able to help pay for their machines by selling electricity back to the power grid." As I read it, the machine runs on electricity from the local utility and some how produces more than it uses.
                      A combination of permanent magnets and coil magnets and other such things.
                      To invent, you need a good imagination - and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison


                      • #12

                        Like the two Vermonters who went to the fair and saw an inventor touting his new contraption. The two looked on for a while and one said to the other, "What do you suppose it is?" His friend replied, "Looks to me like some kind of separator." "What do you mean, a separator?" "You just keep watching. Pretty soon it will separate some fool from his money."
                        Try to make a living, not a killing. -- Utah Phillips
                        Don't believe everything you know. -- Bumper sticker
                        Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. -- Will Rogers
                        There are lots of people who mistake their imagination for their memory. - Josh Billings
                        Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
                        Don't own anything you have to feed or paint. - Hood River Blackie


                        • #13
                          I like to think about Einstein making corrections on people's patent apps when he was working in the patent office.
                          The early worm gets eaten.


                          • #14
                            I can make those machines all day long. Bunch of solar cells and a battery.

                            Now if you really want to make novel thing, then tap in to a harnessed Maxwell's demon machine or a perfect storage system... Not another Adam's motor varient.

                            -- jerry


                            • #15
                              Sounds like a steam ship to me,you know,we pressurize bunker-c and burn it in a boiler to make steam,the steam turns the turbine which turns the generator,the generator produces electricity to run the pumps,the pumps we use to pressurize the bunker-c.So the question is if the fire goes out who mans the hand pump?The oiler of course My point being a complex system will easily lose a simple mind,and once you are lost everything seems wonderful and scary at the same time Perpetual motion B.S.!Now I do have a good one for you,have any of you guys heard of one of our local hicks by the name of Newman?He had a different explaination of how a permanet magnet worked that sounds better than the text books,his thinking was simple,he would take a magnet and pick up a piece of steel and then ask the person he showed it to"what just happened"the answer is work was performed,but what was expended?He believed that the magnet was actually losing mass!But because it lost a miniscule amount it would take eons to exhuast it.Well he was rediculed for years and scoffed at until low and behold a few researchers became interested and stole his theory.In the end he got screwed and they got the credit.Mainly because they had the paper on the wall and he didn't.
                              I just need one more tool,just one!