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Sioux #621 valve refacer info

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  • Sioux #621 valve refacer info

    Warning, tool gloat!

    A buddy of mine got a deal on a newer valve grinder for his shop and gave me this one; an old but very usable Sioux #621. It actually looks better than the picture shows and runs very smooth other than the clapped out belts. The coolant pump even works well!

    Anybody know where to find a manual for this fine ol' piece of American iron or approximately when it was built?

    It will probably be used rarely for grinding valves but hopefully I can modify it for misc. tool grinding jobs. Anyone seen any clever mods for this kind of machine?





    Milton

    "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

    "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

  • #2
    cool machine. i just last week called sioux customer service and they sent me one at no charge for my 645 ( i think that was the no.) look up sioux on google and phone um up. . . . nice folks. they answer the phone "snap-on". go figure !

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    • #3
      Thanks David, I'll give them a shout.

      I chucked up a dowel pin and measured .0045" runout. Not as good as I had hoped! I'll try taking the chuck apart and giving it a good cleaning and see if that helps. Anybody know how the chuck is mounted to the spindle? I'm hoping I can mount one of those asian 3" or 4" 4-jaw chucks so I can finish grind eccentrics and crankshafts for model engines.
      Milton

      "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

      "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice grinder

        Hi DICKEYBIRD.

        I'd try the original manufacturer as advised by davidh as he got an excellent response. They should be able to tell you how to dismount the chuck.

        If the chuck is a "Jacob's" chuck, try some of the links in this Google page:
        http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...e+Search&meta=

        There are many versions made by Jacob and each seems to have its own specific methods and sequences for dismantling, cleaning and re-assembly as I recall.

        That grinder motor and spindle set should make a very passable Tool Post Grinder as the "step-up" ratio is pretty good. There are other distinct possibilities as well.

        You are very fortunate to have considerate friends like that and have such a fine tool-in-the making.

        Comment


        • #5
          Old Iron

          Don't you just love the looks and the feel of an old cast iron product. Even after years of neglect, one can still restore them. Forgot how the chuck was removed from the last one I owned. But I do remember a customer took it apart and replaced the steel balls that were worn. The manufacturer only sold replacement stones and belts. No other parts were available.
          Please post pictures of any mods and attachments you make for it. Jim

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          • #6
            Yup, it's really great to own a piece of American industrial history. It's a heavy dude and solidly built. I worked as a mechanic from 1968 through 1974 and worked with a Sioux machine at one shop and a B&D at another. We did MANY valve jobs in those days so my hands fell right into place onto the appropriate handles. Sometimes I wish I could go back to those days!

            It has the original GE motor which is smooth & powerful. The spindles run smoothly and don't have much slop at all. I turned it on it's side to look for dovetails and adjustable gibs but found that both slides move on round shafts about an inch or more in dia. I'm sure they have some type of wear adjustment but didn't spend a lot of time looking yet.

            I finally found the Sioux/Snap-On website and emailed their tech support to see if any info is still available on this ol' feller. We'll see what comes back.

            Milton
            Milton

            "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

            "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

            Comment


            • #7
              The nice fellow (Jack Lathrop) at Snap-On Tools' Customer Service Dept sent me some scans from the archives. Here's a pic from an old ad page. There's no way to know when mine was built but this ad's from 1939 and it looks just like mine.

              Milton

              "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

              "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

              Comment


              • #8
                Here's a pic of my Van Dorn No.6 Universal Valve and Tool Grinder that I've been cleaning up. (The motorized work head is not shown in the pic.)

                It dates to around 1950-ish, since I have a copy of VD's 1941 catalog which doesn't list it, and a photocopy of the 1951 copy which does, but doesn't say anything like "new this year" or similar.

                Like you noted with that Sioux (I also have a much later Sioux 645, probably from the mid-late seventies) it's built heavy-duty. The movable tables are cast, probably nodular iron, the grinder spindle cartridge must weigh 12 pounds, and the linear bearing type table slides are massive machined and ground rods with backlash-adjustable sliders.

                I can't help on the data on your Sioux, but I was also considering trying to convert or adapt this to tool grinding. I'm less optimistic now than I was before, though... I know I can make a series of jigs to grind lathe tools. That part'll be easy and fairly simple.

                But for doing endmills and the like, it won't be much more than just a grinder head, and I'll have to make about three-quarters of an entire tool grinder to fit to it anyway, so I'm leaning back towards making a dedicated, separate tool grinder using a toolpost grinder I recently got.

                But, I'm always up for ideas and sharing some info.

                Doc.
                Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Doc, cool machine you have there.

                  You're right, I don't think it'd be worth trying to convert it for sharpening the ends of endmills. Not enough headroom to easily get the angles right. I'm working on another hare-brained idea using my H/F Baldor clone for that. Too early to show anything yet but it just may work.

                  I'm hoping to get the Sioux working well enough to do a valve now & then and to grind a set of pointed dowels to use in common collet sizes for hole spotting. I'm also hoping to adapt a small 4-jaw chuck for eccentrics and crankpins.
                  Milton

                  "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

                  "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

                  Comment

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