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  • monarch 12 EE?

    Walking out of my local provider of libations, I saw an ad on the board for a monarch 12 ee. I've read about the 10 EE and was wondering if this was the bigger brother of the 10? the price isn't all that bad for out here in the boonies, so I'm going to give the number a call...can't hurt to at least look at it (at least not too much?)

  • #2
    The "old" height(round dials) 10 EE swings approx 12-1/2", the "new" height(square dials) swings approx 13-1/4".
    There is a 1000 EE, 13 EE, etc, but these are much larger machines, and seem to be very rare.
    Harry

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    • #3
      More generally, Monarch seems to have rated most or all of its lathes based on the swing over the carriage. This is much more conservative and perhaps more honest, but it would seem would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

      I have a friend who has a 12CK. It swings 14", but 12" at the carriage.

      Paul
      Paul Carpenter
      Mapleton, IL

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      • #4
        Originally posted by pcarpenter
        This is much more conservative and perhaps more honest, but it would seem would put them at a competitive disadvantage.
        Paul
        Guess they figured out a way to compensate through other means. JR
        My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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        • #5
          spent some time digging around on the web, can't seem to get google to find such a beastie. I did spend quite a bit of time reading the PM forum on monarchs. They sound like they are quite interesting machines. The note on the board said it was a 1941 build (I think at least) so it's a bit older. Nothing noted as to what was included beyond a taper attachment.
          I already have a lathe- a newer chinese, but this would probably be a big step up in precision capability, depending on condition. I'll just have to give the number a call.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by loosescrewmt
            spent some time digging around on the web, can't seem to get google to find such a beastie.
            Don't know about Tony Griffiths' site?
            http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/index.html

            Beware - the drive electronics of the 10EEs are complex, and the obsolete electronic components are not available. The drive systems are often gutted nowadays and replaced entirely with modern electronic do-funnies, which is not a trivial project.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rantbot
              Don't know about Tony Griffiths' site?
              http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/index.html
              He's asking about a 12 EE, which I've never heard of. I think the seller may mean the Monarch C ("CK"), which like Paul says, was advertised as a 12x30 toolroom lathe.
              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by lazlo
                He's asking about a 12 EE, which I've never heard of. I think the seller may mean the Monarch C ("CK"), which like Paul says, was advertised as a 12x30 toolroom lathe.
                ... D'oh! ...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rantbot
                  Beware - the drive electronics of the 10EEs are complex, and the obsolete electronic components are not available. The drive systems are often gutted nowadays and replaced entirely with modern electronic do-funnies, which is not a trivial project.
                  First - a lot of the 10EEs have a motor/generator drive, and these are about as complex as a straight motor. About all that's required is greasing the bearings and replacing brushes & belts when they're worn. After that comes the tube drive that uses 2 C16Js and 2 3C23s for the motor control. All of the parts needed can be sourced (excluding the speed control rheostats) and I've talked several folks through repairs over the phone. Following the first tube drive was a second tube drive that has a different set of problems and can be a bit difficult to diagnose, but is still repairable. There were 2 more drive types that used early TTL and such that I would consider unrepairable, but that's a fraction of the machine production, maybe less than 5%.

                  But replacing the drive has been done by a lot of folks, from a straight replacement of the DC motor with an AC on VFD, to replacing with a high power servo motor. Pretty much any of the motor replacement jobs would be a bit large for a home shop with a small lathe and drill press, but if you're considering a 10EE you're likely a bit larger than the average home shop.

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                  • #10
                    Heck, if the motor is still good, just convert to a modern DC drive system. Sabina motors makes drives for this purpose, I think..

                    Not cheap though.


                    HTRN
                    EGO partum , proinde EGO sum

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                    • #11
                      The only modern DC drives that work for the original motor are VERY expensive, most likely more than the lathe costs.

                      The problem is the motor needs a 240v armature voltage and 120v field. And to get past its base speed it needs field weakening as well.

                      FWIW, I have a complete running drive system I am going to be selling off out of my 10EE that I pulled to install my servo drive.

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                      • #12
                        better information

                        So I went and looked at the lathe this morning. It is indeed a 10 EE, build date 12-1941. It's a motor-generator unit, 3 phase 440 volt, not currently under power.

                        I took a few tools with me, and did a bit of checking. There isn't much if any runout at the spindle nose, about .020 play on both axis. The geartrain feels pretty smooth when spun by hand in most of the gears. (my arm got a bit tired spinning all of the combinations).

                        The ways look to be in pretty good shape as well, no major wear over most of the travel. There seems to be about .002-.003 wear around the headstock on the V way, but the flat side isn't as bad. (that was a little hard to tell, as it took a bit to get the gunk buffed off )

                        It does have the taper attachment, but is missing a tailstock, any of the steadys that may have come with it, and only 1 3 jaw (5 or so inch?) burnard chuck. At some point, a BXA sized QC toolpost has been added.

                        Overall condition seems to be decent for a machine of that vintage- it's not leaking much, all of the sight glasses still read as full. Seller is asking 2500 for the machine, is this a fair price??

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                        • #13
                          I think $ 2500.00 would be a steal around here all i ever saw were $12000.00 - $20000.00 +
                          Every Mans Work Is A Portrait of Him Self
                          http://sites.google.com/site/machinistsite/TWO-BUDDIES
                          http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lan...?sort=3&page=1

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                          • #14
                            Ouch. Thats high with no tailstock. Tailstocks run $300 up. Then you get to scrape it in to match your lathe.

                            The not under power is a killer too. Unless you see it moving under is own power you dont know half of whats going on.

                            The MG unit can be wired for 240. But the main contactor coil will be for 480. That contactor is hard to find, but yuou may be able to find a 240v coil. Or you could install a small 240 to 480 transformer to get the contactor to close.

                            Does the oiler in the apron work? Is is putting fresh way lube on the ways as you crank it back and forth?

                            As it sits I wouldnt pay over $1500 for it.

                            When I bought my 42 10EE last year I got original 8" 4 and 3 jaw, dog plate, face plate, 5c collet nose, drawbar, steady and follow rests, centers, drill chucks, bed stops, and a trav-a-dial. There was no bed wear (Although there was carriage wear). I paid $3000 for it. He also gave me a NOS 6"*Buck adjust tru 6 jaw for another $250.

                            This seems to be a pretty average price. They dont sell for over 10k unless you have a pristine I/M model with the works. Only time you see most EEs over 10k is from a dealer.

                            Go over to the Monarch forum on PracticalMachinist.com Thats where the greatest repository of monarch owners reside.

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                            • #15
                              I've been reading on the pm forum untill my brain exploded...

                              not too sure if the oiler is working or not- the machine has been sitting for several years as is, so I'd expect that the oiler system is gunked up.

                              I had a feeling that the asking price was too high, but that's the norm out here.

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