Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Machine Tool Reconditioning

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Machine Tool Reconditioning

    Hi Guys

    I just got my grubby paws on a fantastic book. Its the Machine Tool Reconditioning by Edward F. Connelly. Its the ninth printing (from 1974) but its pretty awsome. Anyhow, I have to give the book back to its rightful owner and I was wondering if anyone knew where to get a copy. Amazon did not have any.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Site Search found this

    I just received my Jan/Feb issue of The Home Shop Machinist. On page 8 is an ad for "Machine Tool Reconditioning" , $92.95 The company is Machine Tool Publications. 651-458-1540

    Have had my own copy for years....

    Comment


    • #3
      Look on page 8 of the May/June copy of The Home Shop Machinist.

      Or www.machinetoolspublications.com.

      I bought mine at Powells book store in Portland, OR about seven years ago. Be ready to pay near $93.00.

      You're correct about it being an awesome book!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmm ... maybe I'll put it on the wishlist. Definitely worth the money though! The year is drawing to an end so maybe I can sell back some of my text books and put the money towards this one.

        Thanks for the tips!

        Comment


        • #5
          I think I only paid $50 or so for my copy.

          Well, it was back in 1976.

          Machine tool reconditioning hasn't changed much, but everything else has. There was no C in NC. ASCII characters were punched on paper tape. Machine control was a BIG cabinet and you had one guy dedicated to keeping it running. This is a lot more fun.
          .
          "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Fasttrack
            Hmm ... maybe I'll put it on the wishlist. Definitely worth the money though!
            It's definitely worth the money, but MTR is mostly about machine tool alignment, with very little about hand scraping technique and tools. If you have a machine you're going to scrape straight-down, you really don't need it. I'm too chicken-sh!t to try re-aligning a machine based on Connelly's instructions.

            It's also from before Turcite and Moglice, so (in the lathe chapter, for example) he instructs you to remove the headstock, scrape the whole bed down and then scrape everything else to fit. Connelly sternly warns against shimming the headstock or tailstock, which is common practice with "modern" machine tool rebuilders.

            MTR is also really, really dry -- like reading the Federal Tax Code
            Last edited by lazlo; 05-13-2008, 04:58 PM.
            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

            Comment


            • #7
              lol - i really need to get my library of machine tool books going. I've only got two books Right now my shelf is filled with physics and math books, which I'll definitely keep, and some english and psych books, which I plan on ditching just as soon as possible

              It looks like I may be buying a lathe here in a little bit, I've put a deposit on one and it may need scraping at some point. I thought a book like this would be worth having but I should probably look into a more introductory level book.

              I've got one more final, and then I can take a look at the book in more detail.

              Comment


              • #8
                Connelly's book is pretty much the bible on the subject, but it doesn't show much about the scraping stroke and the technique of the scraping work itself. However, about every other resource I have seen is lacking what MTR contains: Great information on the critical nature of establishing planar relationships and measuring them as you work. Any fool can learn to scrape something flat. Its the other critical part....keeping way surfaces in correct relationship to one another...that is difficult. MTR offers more information on that than you should ever need. Its nice that Connelly shows both how its done at the factory where machine-specific fixturing existed as well as some ideas on fabricating your own measuring and reference fixtures which is the part that I think is far less than straightforward in some cases.

                I like the fact that he helps establish what reasonable "fudge factors" are....like how much a knee mill knee should be scraped "nose up" to account for the flex of later having a saddle, table, vise and work on it.

                Soak up what you can while you have it so you will know if you need it later if you actually go to do some scraping work. Its a great book from the standpoint of understanding machine architecture too....something I consider useful in evaluating various design advantages as well as in evaluating old machines.

                Paul
                Paul Carpenter
                Mapleton, IL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mtr

                  More money in English than machining, young man.

                  I wanted to be like the rest of my family which went back to the first days of steam and perhaps further.Nope, 'I'm the last' said the old man!
                  OK, I've been able to understand engineering since- I was 3 or so.

                  The other Atkinson actually did study to be an Electrical Engineering Graduate. He's one of the richest men in the UK- but he ain't done a serious engineering job. He's a comedian or if you also have a sense of humour---
                  he's a Bean Counter.

                  or 'Blackadder' or Rowan Sebastian Atkinson.
                  Moi? I can't keep up with the other lad from the same village- but I retired 25 years ago.

                  Norman Atkinson

                  And- No- I don't know more

                  Norm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Freaking out

                    This might freak out the Purists and seekers of truth and light in ancient (antient?) books and tomes, but you can do some seriously good work on lathe beds and saddles as well as mill tables, saddles and vertical dove-tails on a good planing machine (aka "Planer") or a "bridge/gantry" mill or a plano-mill.

                    A good operator can make those so-called "old-fashioned" machines "sing". I've seen what are "tool-post grinders" mounted on planers and that provides an awful lot of what would otherwise be tedious, laborious work (if done at all) done with minimal hand/manual "follow-up" work to be done.

                    I am not saying that the stuff in those old "bibles/gospels" is wrong - at all.

                    I am a total cynic and skeptic when it comes to "Holy Writ" in any of its forms and guises if for no other reason than the baggage of "High Priests" that accompany them and seem to have custody of those books in a Tabernacle to they and only they have access to.

                    It is often "holy" to the extent that it has or leaves "holes" in its logic and application - "Machining" and like books very much included.

                    They are too prescriptive and inadequately descriptive for my liking.

                    They have an implied "my way or the high-way" attitude for my liking.

                    What I am saying is that there may be other ways (sorry, just re-read that - "ways" was a deplorable unintended pun!!!).

                    Well I must be "on my way" (not sorry) and "hit the road" (not sorry there either!!).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Back in 2002 a member of this forum, kgarver, got a bunch of people from the forum together and bought quite a few copies of this book from Dan at Machine Tool Publications. Dan used to give a substantial discount on multiple copies. Here is the link to the post that kind of explains how it went down.

                      http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...reconditioning

                      Maybe its time to try this again if enough members are interested.
                      Mark Hockett

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oldtiffie
                        This might freak out the Purists and seekers of truth and light in ancient (antient?) books and tomes, but you can do some seriously good work on lathe beds and saddles as well as mill tables, saddles and vertical dove-tails on a good planing machine (aka "Planer")

                        I am not saying that the stuff in those old "bibles/gospels" is wrong - at all.

                        I am a total cynic and skeptic when it comes to "Holy Writ" in any of its forms and guises if for no other reason than the baggage of "High Priests" that accompany them and seem to have custody of those books in a Tabernacle to they and only they have access to.
                        Tiffie, that's how most old iron was made: it was planed first, and then hand-scraped. In other words, you can't get good enough accuracy with just a planer.

                        In Moore's Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy, they show the factory planing giant cast iron castings. Moore explains that planing was preferred in the machine tool industry (at the time) because planing the rough castings induced less internal stresses in the cast iron during the machining process than a milling machine.
                        "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          More book stuff

                          Thanks lazlo.

                          Sure, that might be right - so far as it goes.

                          But the "degree of accuracy required" is really in the hands of the machinist and the "customer".

                          If a "lick" under a planer is OK for the Customer then that is all that is needed.

                          Whether or not the planing is followed up by "scraping" or what-ever is for the Customer to decide and is not in the realm of any book or person to tell him otherwise. All they can or should do is to seek to advise him.

                          As long as the Customer is making what he considers to be "best" and an "informed" choice in the prevailing circumstances then it is entirely up to the Customer.

                          If the "bed" or "way" is induction hardened, then it is an entirely different matter as neither planing nor scraping may be options at all - but a large "bridge" or "gantry" surface grinder may be.

                          Its all "horses for courses".

                          Too many of those "old books" are really "this is how I did/do it and so do/must you" and have an inferred/implied "for "Dummies" suffix attached.

                          I like to know the "what and why" of why they are doing something rather than a prescriptive "what to do ('coz I say so?)" approach.

                          I like to both read, discuss or think about several/optional approaches to any task.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oldtiffie
                            But the "degree of accuracy required" is really in the hands of the machinist and the "customer".

                            If a "lick" under a planer is OK for the Customer then that is all that is needed.
                            Sure, agree completely Mick. I've never run a planer, so I have no idea how accurate it would be, but I'm guessing it's roughly milling machine accuracy (say, a couple of tenths/foot).

                            I bought this month's Model Engineer (friggin' expensive in the 'States!) because it had a neat article about the Myford factory rebuilding a Super 7. Myford cleaned up the ways on a horizontal milling machine, and then carefully surface ground the ways.

                            Then again, I'm guessing the rebuild was "on the house" (since it was "free" advertising for Myford in a prominent article in ME). I think most (all?) Myfords have soft beds, so maybe you could get nearly as good with a good planing job...
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As Robert pointed out, lathe beds were often gang-planed on large planers as an intital roughing operation.

                              The issue of merely machine finishing versus following up with hand scraping is not just one of precision. While you can plane or mill something within say .0005/foot on modern machinery in good repair, you will not have a surface that will stay that flat for very long. You have all of the striations from the one machined surface riding on those from the mating surface. The high spots will wear away quickly changing the fit and the abilities of the machine in short order. In short, they will "wear in" rapidly but that worn in section will not be even. In the ideal, very little scraping is done to establish the planes of way surfaces...those should be roughed in by machine as closely as possible. However, by scraping carefully and increasing bearing dramatically, the amount of time that the machine will stay in spec is increased many times versus that of two un-matched machined surfaces. In short, the extra work and presumed esoteric work is not just focused on precision, but also on longevity.

                              Remember that machine tools make machine tools. The machine used to plane a machine bed will introduce its own error plus some that is a function of the process. One of the other functions of hand scraping is to remove some of this variation from ideal. The guy who learn't me to do scraping work, in describing what I needed to work toward, indicated that .0005/foot is a reasonable standard to expect machines to produce today. If a machine with that much tolerance produces another machined way surface, you can expect that it will likely not have *less* (likely more) than the surface of the machine producing it.

                              Sure...can you make do with a pretty crude way surface for a lot of "customers"? Probably so. Do you want to intentionally buy a roughly made machine in hopes that you never need to make a part to close tolerances though? Are you OK with the reduced life this machine will have due to the aforementioned "quick wear"? The purpose in hand scraping is to produce good mating surfaces, in plane with one another, for greatest longevity. There's no sense in making something new, from scratch or proclaiming something "rebuilt", that performs like a well worn machine....or which reaches that point of loose tolerances prematurely.

                              My take on it is: Make the machine as good as is reasonably attainable...there's plenty of other ways to screw up your project

                              Paul
                              Paul Carpenter
                              Mapleton, IL

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X