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  • #16
    Well heck Errol, you should have thrown some kerosene on it and helped it along. I wouldn't have called the fire dept. His statement that they use water on gas fire just supports my opinion of firemen.

    You are not supposed to use water on a liquid fuel fire, it just spreads the fire. I quess if you can put hundreds of gallons of water on it in a matter of seconds in a mist type stream, well maybe.

    If our home caught fire I would rather they stay away and let me handle it. All they do is tear everything up and put water all over everything whether it is burning or not. When they leave everything in the house is soaked and the roof is destroyed and the house has to be torn down and completely replaced.
    Last edited by Carld; 05-16-2008, 04:49 PM.
    It's only ink and paper

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    • #17
      Sorry Carl, you are clearly speaking well out of any areas of expertise you may posses.
      Location: North Central Texas

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Carld
        ...You are not supposed to use water on a liquid fuel fire, it just spreads the fire. I quess if you can put hundreds of gallons of water on it in a matter of seconds in a mist type stream, well maybe.
        When I was in the Navy they taught us how to extinguish great pools of burning fuel oil, with nothing but a fire hose.

        That was 35 years ago. Maybe fires today are different.
        Weston Bye - Author, The Mechatronist column, Digital Machinist magazine
        ~Practitioner of the Electromechanical Arts~

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        • #19
          What you don't want to do is pour a small amount of water into a burning oil fire in the kitchen - this causes the resulting violent steam expansion to blast the burning oil all over.... in the burning lawnmower case, if you have a hose capable of several gallons/min, you will just cool the fire down very quickly and also deprive it of oxygen. If you had a garden hose in your kitchen,
          you could use that on oil fires really easily...

          Fires need heat, fuel and air to burn. A large amount of water is really good at stealing the heat (my steamboat boiler is a good example!) and also depriving the fire of air....

          - Bart
          Bart Smaalders
          http://smaalders.net/barts

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          • #20
            No....*Carl* is not supposed to use water to extinguish a petroleum fire. He clearly does not know how

            Actually, I am sure that's a proper civillian answer since you could float bits of flaming petroleum to other areas if you weren't careful. My uncle is a captain with the Wichta, KS fire department. I will try to remember to ask him. I do recall when I was a small kid and he was stationed not far from us in the Air Force, he pointed out the giant fake steel "airframes" that they supposedly doused with 1000 gallons of jet fuel and put out as practice...again with water. I believe the answer is that its fogged above the liquid base to deprive oxygen. Certainly they don't blast water into a big puddle of burning liquid.

            My guess is that its probably not that unsafe to put out a fire like that...unlike some other burning vehicles. The reason I say that is that I would think that a plastic fuel tank is not prone to a BLEVY (boiling liquid explosion). I would guess that they melt away allowing the fuel to burn rather than explode.

            Paul
            Paul Carpenter
            Mapleton, IL

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            • #21
              Sheesh, such a waste of perfectly good gasoline.

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              • #22
                I would guess that they melt away allowing the fuel to burn rather than explode.
                That's my experience. I watched a drunk roll his car end over end a few times in front of the house we lived in 30 years ago. It landed upside down and the battery started a fire under the hood. It eventually reached the back and the gas tank "blew". Except "blew" is much too strong a word. Without a sound the fire suddenly became about 3 times larger for a little while.
                Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                • #23
                  In the movies crashed cars always blow up. Does, it EVER happen in real life? I know in real life shooting holes in a gas tank will never even result in a fire unless shooting tracers or there is another source of inightion. Gary P. Hansen
                  In memory of Marine Engineer Paul Miller who gave his life for his country 7-19-2010 Helmand Province, Afghanistan. Freedom is not free, it is paid for with blood.

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                  • #24
                    Then handle it youself!

                    Originally posted by Carld
                    Well heck Errol, you should have thrown some kerosene on it and helped it along. I wouldn't have called the fire dept. His statement that they use water on gas fire just supports my opinion of firemen.

                    You are not supposed to use water on a liquid fuel fire, it just spreads the fire. I quess if you can put hundreds of gallons of water on it in a matter of seconds in a mist type stream, well maybe.

                    If our home caught fire I would rather they stay away and let me handle it. All they do is tear everything up and put water all over everything whether it is burning or not. When they leave everything in the house is soaked and the roof is destroyed and the house has to be torn down and completely replaced.
                    Are you blind?? It is a burning lawn mower, not a pool of flamable liquid.

                    Have you ever been or even tried being a firefighter???? If you have no idea what it is like to be one, you obviously have no idea why certain things happen. Learn a little before you spout off.

                    I guess I now know your opinion of my un-paid profession. You can have you "opinion" of firefighters today, yet even if they know your "opinion" they will help you tomorrow.

                    Put on the turnout gear and take a little walk with me, with a wind chill of -30 or heat index of 117*, through some of what I have seen and done in the past twenty years.

                    I have rescued one person from a burning building, had to watch a woman blame herself for hours while her son lay dead at the base of the basement stairs, victim of accidental electrocution, seen four kids burned beyond recognition, watched one kid die as we were extricating from his wrecked car, seen 150 persons lose their homes in twenty minutes when their apartment building burned, heard countless screams of anguish from those in panic and pain.

                    It's not all bad.

                    Handing an old woman a sooty, wet photograph of her deceased husband, handing a little girl her cat that she thought would never come out of the tree, countless times I have heard THANK YOU for helping us.

                    Can I be pi**ed off here ??

                    Apparently you are amongst the un-grateful b*st*rds that every firefighter on the face of the earth puts it on the line for. I lose sleep, time from work and family, etc. etc. etc. for free, and at my own personal safety for complete strangers.

                    I wouldn't trade it for anything.

                    I Thank You for your support of those in the firefighting sector of public safety.

                    Please keep your opinon of law enforcemnt to yourself.
                    Last edited by ERBenoit; 05-16-2008, 09:17 PM.
                    Paying Attention Is Not That Expensive.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by garyphansen
                      In the movies crashed cars always blow up. Does, it EVER happen in real life? I know in real life shooting holes in a gas tank will never even result in a fire unless shooting tracers or there is another source of inightion. Gary P. Hansen
                      That's Hollywood. If the gas tank gets compromised, the gas leaks out and is introduced to an ignition source. That's how they "blow up". Since an automotive gas (liquid) tank is not pressurized, it would be very difficult to "blow up". Unless the tank has been tampered with to prevent venting, the tank will self vent long before it "blows up".

                      Now tires, shocks, and gas struts are a different story.
                      Paying Attention Is Not That Expensive.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Carld
                        I quess if you can put hundreds of gallons of water on it in a matter of seconds in a mist type stream, well maybe.
                        What, this isn't your 'maybe' effective SOP for a lawn mower fire Eric?

                        Agreed about the gas tank explosions, its just not a problem. Tires sure can get your attention at times and magnesium can prove to be quite entertaining.


                        Speaking of explosions, this is where I spent much of Monday. There were about 3 dozen drums total, most containing Ethanol:

                        Location: North Central Texas

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                        • #27
                          About 3 years ago 4 of us were coming back from dinner and saw a blaze near a house, looked very recently started.

                          We drove to the house and a guy was calmly watching his newer Ranger rover with a under hood fire about 4 foot from the attached garage. We called 911 and in 20 seconds or so the fire started spreading into the neighbors tree and really got going.

                          We had to snap him out of his blank stare, it was like he was a overloaded zombie.

                          We asked if he had a hose and he acted like that was the best idea he'd ever heard.. Amazing. The hose turned out to be about 5' away!

                          We got the hose connected (winter) and just turned on the water when the firemen showed up.

                          I can still see that guy staring at his car, house and fence going up like he was at a campfire warming hisself. I wondered if I could freeze like that in a similar situation.

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                          • #28
                            No gas tanks don't explode like the movies.

                            I got a buddy who welds tanks up.. he wants them full of gas. He says the fumes is what explodes and purges them with either argon or exhaust.

                            I can remember filling a jeep tank with water and trying to braze it up.. it popped about two or three times blowing out several dents.

                            Fire is your friend as long as controlled.. when it gets out of control it is your worst nightmare. THE worst pain in the world is a burn I think.

                            I can remember old soldiers talking about strapping a stick of dynamite to a GI can of gas.. how it would flatten a building. OUR gas-vapor bomb (daisy cutter) is similar. OPPS>>> a daisy cutter bomb is a conventional bomb.. look up gasoline bomb.. first used in Afganistan
                            Last edited by Dawai; 05-17-2008, 10:16 AM.
                            Excuse me, I farted.

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                            • #29
                              Well, I think Carl is a bit strong in his opinion......

                              But, My father-in-law (also named Carl) had a shop fire...... caused by arcing in a wire, probable rodent damage.

                              Limited to one corner of the shop/garage.....

                              The local FD put it out in short order,..... but then soaked the whole rest of the place.

                              For instance, they OPENED EVERY DRAWER of some (metal) rollarounds on THE OTHER SIDE of the shop, 25 feet away from the fire, and carefully filled each drawer with water...... soaking mics, calipers, and tools of all kinds.

                              Then, he couldn't go in and save anything from rusting, because it had to be "investigated" in case he had started it to file a claim (investigation was apparently several days later)........ he finally said ^&^%$ it and got the WD40* and started in.... But he had to toss out quite a bit of stuff that was simply ruined for no reason by the FD.

                              * WD40 was naturally being used for its water-displacing action...... for those who will quibble
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

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                              • #30
                                Precisely my point J Tiers, the fire dept. always goes above and beyond the cause of the fire and tears up everything they can and won't allow you to clean up or protect anything untill they feel like it.

                                By the way, the fire dept is not a law enforcement agency, they are just fire fighters but they do think they are the police when they get to a fire. They can and do have people arrested for "interfering with their fire".

                                So I pissed some of you off huh! I have always been told not to use water on a petroleum fire, to only use a chemical extinguisher on it. As I said, if you have a hose that puts out a mist with a large amount of water it will/may control the fire. A garden hose on a large gas fire is not a good idea. You have to have the right equipment to fight a fire.

                                To stop any fire you have to take away the oxygen and heat. That is what fire extinguishers are designed to do.

                                Yes, I have a strong opinion on this and I don't keep my opinions to myself. An opinion is just that and your opinion is just as important as mine is.

                                Yeah, and the next post will say, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, so give me your opinion, it's just as valuable as mine.

                                BTW, I won't chastise you for your opinion as you did me for my opinion.
                                It's only ink and paper

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