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OT: peak oil - a myth or a real threat?

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  • #16
    Exactly. What do you think the cost difference between a 40,000 foot well and a 650 foot well is? How much more does it cost to move oil from the middle of Siberia than Pennsylvania or East Texas? If you really want to see high cost gas, wait until they move a lot of production to the arctic ocean. It is not cheap to build a deep water platform that can deal with ice bergs and arctic cold, much less underwater pipelines to get it out. At least in Saudi you don't have to worry about your pipes being too cold to pump oil through or getting crushed by a berg.


    • #17
      If oil is a fossil fuel and

      Originally posted by Rustybolt
      The Russians are drilling over 40,000 feet and finding oil.
      Then how did all those old plants and dinosaurs get that far under ground?
      If I remember correctly Titan a moon of Saturn has bunches of frozen methane. Are we to believe that there were once plants and dinosaurs on Titan?

      Or could it be as some had speculated that the earth and other planets are continually making new oil deep underground and it slowly seeps to the surface.


      • #18
        Its not the amount of Oil are lack of it .but the lack of refineries we have. They are running full blast and we need to build more . The biggest percent of them are in Louisiana and Texas. We need to get some built on the west coast in California . And the great lakes area. Then our oil problems will be over.Most of our Alaska Oil goes to Japan .needs to be shipped to Cal .to be refined. Their is plenty in Utah and Nevada but Government wont let the oil Company`s drill for it.
        Last edited by lane; 05-30-2008, 09:59 PM.
        Every Mans Work Is A Portrait of Him Self


        • #19
          Peak Oil is another scare tactic by the Media ,
          Folks that want higher oil prices,
          and Folks that want us to NOT use oil
          There is oil all over the world.
          It is not from dinosaurs guys..thats bogus.
          There is oil under the artic ice did it get there?

          Back in the 70's I invested in 3 oil wells in Southern Illinois.
          We hit oil and pumped 15 barrels a day, but the General Partner
          was sticking it to the IRS ( 1 Mill +)and the Feds came in and shut down the wells and plugged them.. And I lost my butttt in the deal
          There is sweet oil in Illinois..believe me

          Our News Media hides information !
 you think that ??? YES,Yes, Yes
          Because it doesn't flow with the agenda Fellows !
          They don't want us to drill !!! get it ?
          Without oil. we turn to the Government for solutions (and controls !)

          This is proven here, because you guys have not mentioned 'Bakken"
          You have
          There is more oil there than in ....ready?,,,,,Saudia Arabia !!!!
          go here for a start..

          And Evan, I don't think the reserves end at the Candian Border at all as shown in the map!
          By the way, the "New" technology they talk about is horizontal drilling.
          One hole down into the ground and you can go for miles in any direction.
          Its awesome



          • #20
            Jack field may have as much as 15,000,000,000 barrel's. Its not a big deal at all...

            America will do just fine, the punks will need grow a nut sack...


            • #21
              A there and here comparison-

              There-Russia offering tax incentives to boost production.

              Here-US Congressional moonbats "grilling" oil execs for the second time this year and accomplishing nothing.
              I just need one more tool,just one!


              • #22
                > Our News Media hides information !
                > They don't want us to drill !!! get it ?
                > Without oil. we turn to the Government for solutions (and controls !)

                Hmmm... So let me get this straight. It's a combined secret oil industry/government/media plot to prevent oil drilling so that prices will rise and everyone will be pissed about $5.00+/gallon diesel, and vote the current government out of office. That seems a little... dubious, and self-defeating on the part of the government.

                Well, I can't imagine that the current administration is in favor of high oil prices - or was that image of our leerless feeder begging his friends at the House of Saud for more oil production just part of the plot.

                Come on - you really don't seriously believe this stuff - right?

                I'd plan on oil & derivatives being rather more expensive than it was in the past:

                * work near where you live or vice versa, or use mass transit.
                * choose an energy efficient house, wood heat or a comfortable climate
                * buy more energy efficient cars next time around or park that pickup
                except for when you really need to carry 2000 lbs.
                * avoid using cars if you can (driving to the gym to work out seems weird).
                * install energy efficient lighting
                Bart Smaalders


                • #23
                  Don't forget, there was life on this planet before Exon.
                  Last edited by dfw5914; 05-31-2008, 12:40 AM.


                  • #24
                    There is oil under the artic ice did it get there?
                    Surely you have heard of plate tectonics? The continents float around on a sea of magma. There is incontrovertible evidence that the Antarctic was once tropical as well. There is probably oil under the Antarctic ice cap somewhere.

                    The Russians haven't found any significant amount of oil at 40,000 feet. There are traces of primordial methane on this planet but most of the light elements from the formation of the planet were blown away during the formation of the moon by the impact of a very large body. Water arrived later as comets during the cleanup stage known as the late heavy bombardment.

                    When the Soviet Union collapsed in the early 1990s, oil production in Russia collapsed as well, for reasons entirely related to the then-prevailing unstable economic and political conditions. This decline in political stability, economic conditions, and total oil and gas production caused great hardship in Russia, and directly led to significant personal hardship to many of the Russian people.
                    There were no "super wells" to come to the rescue of the Russians from the collapse of their previous governing system, or their mismanaged economy. Hint: There is a lesson in this for the West in general, and for America in particular.
                    In the past decade or so, Russian oil production has recovered to some extent, but for reasons that have nothing to do with "abiotic" oil and everything to do with investing big chunks of capital in new conventional drilling projects for oil wells.
                    All of the increase in Russian oil production appears to be from known and conventional, if not mundane, geological sources. That is, there are no known deep Russian "super wells" producing "abiotic" oil or gas from the base of the Earth's crust or from the top of its mantle.

                    The Russian scientific establishment has frequently bought in to some very unscientific and even ridiculous propositions. A particularly good example is the works of Trofim Lysenko. He rejected standard genetics and maintained that if you cut the tail off a dog and it's generations of decendents eventually the dogs will be born without tails. This dogma took hold in Russia and held back genetic science there for decades. The same applies to the unfounded rumours of vast quantities of super deep oil. It doesn't exist.
                    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here


                    • #25
                      Having spent time in the USAF 57-59 and in a private venture 61-62 I was familiar with the tar sands in western Co and the shale oil project which was abandoned when the bottom dropped out of the price.In the 50's the project @ Rifle said they could produce shale oil if the price of crude went to $3.50/barrel.It would seem to me nuclear powered heat producers would be just the thing for shale and tar sand oil production and would decrease the cost of production considerably.( By the way a lot of natural gas is coming from CO but so far very little if any oil.)


                      • #26
                        Someone mentioned (someone always does) the "enormous amount of water that is needed to....(insert process here)"....

                        Unless you are electrolyzing the water, (and really even then) the water is not "destroyed"......... If you have the common sense of a flatworm, you re-use it. That is in most cases just another of the tired old "arguments against everything" that are brought up by the people who actually hope that most of the world population dies off.

                        Now, there ARE places where there isn't much water, or much fresh water, and it can be a problem due to distribution..... how do you get the "starter quantity" of water in place?

                        it seems obvious that there must be a finite quantity of oil. So at some time there will be much less than now.

                        Many would have you think that each and every person in china and india will have 3 cars and 2 boats, and will be competing for that oil, burning it at an accelerating pace until it's gone.

                        Reality is that price controls usage. $130 oil already controls usage..... how many chinese peasants will be fueling their SUVs with $4 gas?

                        Evan has already dealt with the "it takes a barrel of oil to get a barrel of oil" deal....

                        Oil itself, and the society built on it are the product of its cheapness.

                        If you want to know what will control oil pricing and oil usage, it is "carbon credits....."

                        There will be plenty of oil and coal, BUT YOU WON'T BE ALLOWED TO USE IT.

                        The chinese etc WILL be allowed to use oil and coal. They don't have any serious carbon credit /control legislation pending, and no prospect of it.

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan


                        • #27
                          Why are gas prices so high?
                          We are told it is simply a matter of supply and demand. But is it?

                          On the supply side we told that the supply of oil is limited and we are about to start running out, thus we must expect to pay more for it. However we have had individuals telling us this since the early 1900’s and we have yet to run out, but nonetheless we do always wind up paying more for it.

                          It is said that oil is a fossil fuel. So why is it being found were we would not expect to find any fossils? Of course those that claim the planet might be continually making new oil they are typically ridiculed.

                          By declaring that vast areas are off limits to drilling does not help the supply problem. However it does allow the oil companies to claim a shortage and thus raise their price. Same thing goes for the building of new refineries, the environmentalists will not let us build new ones so when one break down we are forced to raise our price.

                          On the demand side. We are told the demand for oil has increased, which it has, and we need to conserve and use it more efficiently, which we should. But that alone will not solve the problem.
                          We are told that India and China are using more oil now then in the past, which is true, but does their increase in usage directly and proportionally compare to our spike in prices? Or is there something else going on under the radar that we are missing?

                          Consider the recent debacle with the banks and their sub-prime loans. Here we are being told we need new laws to prevent this from happing again, well duh yah. But why were the old laws repealed in the first place? Oh I guess we are not suppose to ask that as it might embarrass some politicians. Anyway the Federal Reserve Bank then steps in to save us by reducing interest rates. This of course devalues the dollar, thus those evil foreigners are now demanding more of them to supply the same amount of oil.

                          So thank you congress for giving up your control of our money and removing us from the gold standard and then allowing the FRB, which is a nothing more then a group of impendent banks and not part of the federal government, to take over control of our money.
                          Where might we be if it were not for your sterling leadership?


                          • #28
                            I totally agree with Mad Scientist, he is spot on. Anyone that believes the US government dosen't control oil and other things is a fool. They get their pockets lined by all the lobyists and companies.

                            In the 1960's I read that we had enough oil in the 48 states to last for over 300-400 years at the projected usage. That didn't include Canada or Alaska.

                            Why do you think we buy foreign oil? He who has the oil has the power and we will end up with most of the oil at the end. We may not have the same form of government in 100 or 200 years but the oil will still be here for several centuries to come.

                            Last fall NPR had a article on about the Middle East oil fields and how they are starting to pump salt water and the fields are drying up and not producing what they once were. Good, maybe they will go back to being nomads. I say buy ALL their oil as fast as posible.

                            Governments rise and fall and seldom last more than 300 or 400 years. Lets see, 1776 to 2006 = 230 years. Look at the corruption and decadance around the USA, remind you of Rome, hmmm.
                            It's only ink and paper


                            • #29
                              It's De beers syndrome

                              a gallon isn't forever though

                              all the best.markJ


                              • #30
                                There is a simple fact that most people don't realize here. The US (probably in league with Canada also) does not want to use up all it's reserves. The government controls the oil leases and limits the amount we pump from domestic sources. Why? In case of war, we will still have the reserves to fuel the planes, ships, and tanks. The atomic bomb may have ended WW2, but denying oil to the Germans and probably the Japanese as well, is what actually won that war. We are deliberately using the South American and Mid Eastern oil first so the rest of the world runs out before we do.

                                A consequence of this is we, the American and Canadian citizens are paying more for oil than if a less conservative policy were being followed. In the long run, it is probably the best strategy. He who laughs last, laughs best.

                                A by-product of the rising gas prices is innovation in better fuel economy and the development of alternative energy sources. This also is a good thing, but it's cost must be paid. That is what we are doing at the pump today.
                                Paul A.
                                SE Texas

                                Make it fit.
                                You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!