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  • L-00

    I've got a job coming up where I'll need a collet closer setup for my 11x24" Rockwell-Delta lathe with an L-00 spindle nose. Anyone out there got a surplus setup or good drawings/photos of such a setup? TIA!

    David
    Montezuma, IA
    David Kaiser
    “You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein

  • #2
    Hi David,

    I have a Royal 5C closer on my Clausing, but the L-00 spindle mount doesn't really factor in much. You have the standard Royal lever mechanism at the back, the typical collet tube, and a spindle taper to 5C adapter (4 1/2 MT to 5C, in the case of the Clausings, Rockwell has a very similar, but proprietary adapter).

    There's a L-00 nose piece, but that's mostly to make it easier to eject the 5C collets, and isn't really mandatory, especially in a non-production environment.

    A hand-wheel closer is pretty simply -- just a thrust bearing between the handwheel and the collet tube. You can make the 5c tube out of DOM tubing (Aircraft Spruce is one source), but you'll have to find the Rockwell taper to 5C adapter.

    Good luck,

    Robert
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

    Comment


    • #3
      David, I have a Rockwell 10'' screw machine that I just picked up. It has a lever closer on it, but I have not had it long enough to examine it yet. When I go to the shop wednesday I'll look more closely at it.
      Steve

      Dave, I checked on the delta rockwell today and it is actualy an 11'' not a 10'' like I thought.
      The nose piece is home made from a piece of alum and beat up .
      The spindle/morse adapter is not too bad , and measures as follows :1.544 od at large end, 1.447 at small end , 1.960 length of taper, .565 thick flange at front 2.490 od. Bored for 5c .
      If you can't find one for your machine and would like to use this one, all it will cost you is postage and a promise to return it when finished with it



      .
      Steve
      Last edited by doctor demo; 06-25-2008, 10:56 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        IIRC a Rockwell 14 w/a L00 nose is a 4 1/2 morse taper . there was something on this a couple of months ago I think Wolfie had pics.

        Comment


        • #5
          You will need an L00 nose protector of some sort to keep the nut from flopping around. These are not too difficult to make. Otherwise, the drawbar and collet adaptor are the same as any other setup.
          Jim H.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JCHannum
            You will need an L00 nose protector of some sort to keep the nut from flopping around.
            You don't on the Clausing JC -- the MT 4 1/2 -> 5C adapter fits entirely inside the spindle taper. I've run my lever closer without the nose protector. It just protects the spindle threads and makes it easier to eject the collets.
            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

            Comment


            • #7
              are you sure it is not a Yarno taper, like a 10L Southbend or 12" Harrison has?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by quasi
                are you sure it is not a Yarno taper
                LOL Quasi! We keep having this discussion I think you mean a "Jarno" taper, but the Rockwell has a proprietary MT 4 1/2 taper:

                When is a Morse Taper not a Morse Taper? (Lathe spindle noses.)
                Originally posted by Lazlo
                MT 4 1/2 ___________ small=1.266 inch, large=1.500 inch, taper=.62400 in/ft
                MT 5 [Rockwell]_____ small=1.442 inch, large=1.545 inch, taper=.63151 in/ft
                MT 5 [Sheldon]______ small=1.485 inch, large=1.620 inch, taper=.5891 in/ft
                MT 5 [Southbend 10L] small=1.532 inch, large=1.629 inch, taper=.6024 in/ft
                The reason these tweener tapers come up is because the MT4 gage line is too small to pass the largest 5C collet, and an MT 5 spindle is a lot larger than normal for a 10 - 12" lathe.

                The Clausing MT 4 1/2 is actually an ASA standard (it's in Machinery's Handbook, if you can believe it).
                http://www.loganact.com//tips/tapers.htm

                The Rockwell/Sheldon/Southbends all have proprietary MT 4 1/2 variants: they shorten the Morse Taper at different points, which makes them incompatible. The Rockwell is actually a shortened MT5, with the MT5 taper. The Southbend uses a shortened MT5 with the MT3 taper (bizzarre).
                Last edited by lazlo; 06-25-2008, 01:07 PM.
                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lazlo
                  You don't on the Clausing JC -- the MT 4 1/2 -> 5C adapter fits entirely inside the spindle taper. I've run my lever closer without the nose protector. It just protects the spindle threads and makes it easier to eject the collets.
                  With an L0 series mount, there are no spindle threads, they are on the chuck. The nut is loose on the spindle unless some means to retain it is used.
                  Jim H.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JCHannum
                    With an L0 series mount, there are no spindle threads, they are on the chuck. The nut is loose on the spindle unless some means to retain it is used.
                    JC, the spindle nose protectors are meant to protect threaded spindles. Since the L-XX spindles don't have external threads, the nose protector is completely superfluous.

                    Here's my bare naked Clausing 5914:



                    Here's the Clausing with the L-00 spindle nose protector screwed in:



                    Now here's the Clausing with the MT 4 1/2 -> 5C adapter installed inside the spindle taper. Notice that I took off the useless nose protector:



                    ...and finally, here's a 5C collet drawn into the Clausing's spindle, ready to turn. The 5C drawbar pulls the adapter into the spindle. It's rock-solid, and not flopping around. Notice that not only do I not have the nose protector installed, but I don't even have the L-00 key installed (I'm finishing-up the paint):

                    Last edited by lazlo; 06-25-2008, 07:42 PM.
                    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Last picture. The MT 4 1/2 to 5C adapter on the left, the L-00 spindle nose protector on the right. David really just needs the drawbar, closer, and the Rockwell taper to 5 adapter, he doesn't really need the spindle nose protector on the right:



                      By the way, although the L-00 lathes all have incompatible spindle tapers, and therefore need proprietary spindle taper -> 5C adapters, the spindle nose protector is just a miniature L-00 chuck, so spindle nose protectors are interchangeable. You just don't need one
                      "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you! This is great info to have...the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a freight train!

                        David
                        Montezuma, IA
                        David Kaiser
                        “You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.”
                        ― Robert A. Heinlein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I fully understand the setup of the Type L spindle. I do not believe it is a good idea to operate the lathe with the chuck retaining nut unrestrained. The nose protector provides this function as well as providing a smooth surface, preventing potential snagging by the key. To each his own, but I would prefer to have a protector in place for both reasons.

                          I made my own draw bar and 5C adaptor for my Sheldon, and made the nose protector out of plastic as that was the largest OD piece of stock I had on hand at the time, it can be of any material, but it makes things more comfortable when working close to the collet particularly when performing a hand operation such as filing.
                          Last edited by JCHannum; 06-25-2008, 09:55 PM.
                          Jim H.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JCHannum
                            I fully understand the setup of the Type L spindle. I do not believe it is a good idea to operate the lathe with the chuck retaining nut unrestrained. The nose protector provides this function as well as providing a smooth surface, preventing potential snagging by the key.
                            I'll agree with the latter part: the nose protector shields the L-00 key, but I don't follow the former part JC. Are you saying you don't like having the L-00 collar loose while the spindle is running? Why?

                            By the way, the other purpose of the L-00 nut is to wedge the 5C adapter out with a screwdriver after you've ejected the collet I don't do this, but every nose protector nut I've ever seen has wedge marks on it, and some folks (like Joe Bergamo at Plaza Machinery) call it a "knock-out nut."

                            Different strokes...
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It does not seem like a good idea to have anything loose on a lathe spindle. While it might not harm it, I doubt that it does it any good as it was designed to be fastened to the chuck thread. When using collets, the work is usually small diameter, requiring high spindle speeds and anything unattached has the potential to either cause damage or damage itself.

                              The nose protector is easy to make if you can't readily obtain one, and only takes a few seconds to install and remove, so why not use it?
                              Jim H.

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