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220V/1ph to 440V/3ph???

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  • 220V/1ph to 440V/3ph???

    The Ironworker I want to buy has this 440V/3ph motor. I only have 220/1ph.
    Checked on Lenze VFD like I have on my mill but they don't do a transformer up with any VFD's So.. what do I have to do here?
    Thanks!
    Russ
    I have tools I don't even know I own...

  • #2
    Originally posted by torker
    The Ironworker I want to buy has this 440V/3ph motor. I only have 220/1ph.
    Checked on Lenze VFD like I have on my mill but they don't do a transformer up with any VFD's So.. what do I have to do here?
    Thanks!
    Russ
    Russ, The simple solution would be to change the motor. I am surprised that motor isn't 220-440 volt.
    The other thing you could do is a step up transformer 220volt to 440 volt then a 440v rotary phase converter, and wouldn't that solve a voltage problem on your high voltage mill?
    Steve

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    • #3
      Russ,

      The cheapest fix would be a new/used single phase motor. The next best option would be to get a step up transformer and convert your 220 to 440 single phase. Then use a 440 volt VFD to create 3 phase 440 for the motor. A side benefit is the variable speed.
      What horsepower are we talking about? The transformer will be spendy if the horsepower is very high.

      Robin
      Robin

      Happily working on my second million Gave up on the first

      Comment


      • #4
        Steve...Geez... you know I just took a salesmans word. That motor could be a 220/440. Ya... my VN... that ones a 575V machine. I'm not worried about it. The motor from my Ohio will fit it and I'll change out the motor on the BP head.
        If that IW motor isn't a dual voltage... it'd prolly be cheaper to change the motor alright.
        I have tools I don't even know I own...

        Comment


        • #5
          As said lots of 208-230/460/3ph motors are dual voltage getting within 10% is usually acceptable, a VFD will handle the rest if the hp isn't too high then they get expensive.
          Opportunity knocks once, temptation leans on the doorbell.....

          Comment


          • #6
            Hmm.. I think it's a two hp motor. The 50 ton uses a 3 hp/3ph OR a 5hp/1ph.
            I have tools I don't even know I own...

            Comment


            • #7
              Russ,

              If it is only 2 Hp then a transformer and VFD are very reasonable. A 3 or 5 KVA transformer would work great and not break the bank. Check to see if it might be a dual voltage motor. Very common on machine tools.

              Robin
              Robin

              Happily working on my second million Gave up on the first

              Comment


              • #8
                I have not seen a 440v VFD that will take in single phase. All of the ones I have seen are 3 phase in only.

                But really, that motor should be switchable to 240. Then throw a VFD on it. They are getting really cheap now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Don’t know how well a variable frequency drive would work on a motor running under heavy load most of the time. As mentioned, I think a rotary phase converter or single phase motor would be the best bet. The site has some good comparisons and things to watch for.
                  Cheers, Bob

                  http://www.usphaseconverterstandards...comparison.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Russ,

                    I got a VFD for just under 500.00 bucks here. It is awesome. After some programing i can do lots with it. I have a potentiameter and i can slow the mill right down. Great for taping. Set the mill in the slowest speed and then use the potentiometer to kick it all down to maybe 10% rotation. The control pannel, i had to build is just a SPDT and a potentiometer in a regular light switch box. 2 sets of 4 - #18 guage wires, running to the VFD. About 4 hours to wire it all up. Best 4 hours i ever spent!

                    The transformer method works but it is expensive. I would try and get another motor, and install a VFD. Check your motor. If it has 6 wires comming from the inside of the motor, then it most likely is a 440, 220 motor. You just have to rewire your motor. I would have to look at my pannel, to see which wires go where. Check your motor plate. Sometimes the diagram is on the inside of the wire cover.

                    Rob
                    Last edited by spkrman15; 07-15-2008, 08:36 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rob.. I have a VFD on my Ohio. But it's 220V/1ph in...220V/3ph out.
                      Guess this one really isn't a big deal... the motor runs a damm hydraulic pump... not rocketysciency..
                      I never got a rountuit for the speed pot on my mill. The old motor I have..if i remember right it is the wrong type of motor to put one of them on.
                      Same for the VFD induced engine braking.... the old motor can't do that.
                      I have tools I don't even know I own...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't know that there is any value to varying the speed on a hydraulic pump motor...or even that its wise.

                        On the other hand, its been my experience that a used 480V VFD might be cheap to come by as they are used in industry a lot.

                        I would look for the easy solution first....try and see if it is a dual-voltage motor and will run at 220V in which case an RPC is an easy solution that will power this and other machines for you.

                        Good luck. They sure are a handy machine to have around in a fab. shop. For weld-up stuff, it beats watching the bandsaw work sometimes.

                        Paul
                        Paul Carpenter
                        Mapleton, IL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by macona
                          I have not seen a 440v VFD that will take in single phase. All of the ones I have seen are 3 phase in only.
                          They are available in the UK.
                          240 v single phase in , 440 3 phase out

                          http://www.drivesdirect.co.uk/Produc...ers240_415.htm


                          .
                          .

                          Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well for some reason, i did not get it that this was for your new iron worker. Duh on me.

                            AS for the speed pot, i may be wrong, but they will work on any 3 ph motor. The motor is still getting 220v but the HZ are being changed from 60hz down to 5. I.E. at 5hz the motor is still getting its 220 3 phase, just the HZ are only switching 5 times every second, instead of 60 times a second. My electrician told me not to leave the minimum pot setting at 0. 3ph motors do not like that, so my VFD is set at 5hz at the lowest pot setting.

                            Which iron worker did you buy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              John, That is a neat post.
                              We have TECO's here in this Country, so that model should be available !
                              I have not seen that model
                              I have a TECO 1 HP unit, I think it was made by Westinghouse

                              I did a 11 KAV 220 transformer to 440- single phase,
                              and fed a Hitachi 440 volt 10 KVA VFD.
                              It worked fine on a 6.5 HP ( 6.8 KVA) 3 phase 440 V Lathe

                              When using a 3 phase VFD with single phase feed, you downsize the load
                              as you can see in the above example.
                              You only can feed one capacitor bank...but it works
                              Rich
                              Green Bay, WI

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