Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Threading Price Check

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Threading Price Check

    Had a small job done at local machine / fab shop. A couple weeks ago, I asked them if they could thread both ends of a 1" dia. piece of O-1 steel. The threads were to be a double start 7 tpi 7/8" major dia. I just needed 1" of threads on either end. I told them I'd supply mat'l which I centered, turned to major/minor diameter and gave them a drawing. I said I needed a price, owner ( neighbor, friend of wife's side of family) said don't worry about it, I'll take care of it for you... I said I'll pay you, since he wouldn't give a price I suggested $70. Two weeks later,I went to pick it up and he wanted $100. Said he had to send it out to get it done.

    I paid him his $100 which I believe to be a bit on the high side of fair. Price wise, is this fair? I'm thinking shop rates are around $50-75/hr in this area(NW Indiana)
    I bury my work

  • #2
    I remember cutting them in school. A guy showed me a trick with shimming the tool over in the holder and after that it was as easy as could be. That does sound a little pricey for basically cutting 4 threads.

    Comment


    • #3
      I wonder if you paid an hourly rate for a "current generation" machinist to learn to cut double-start threads

      Either way, if he was going to have to send it out making it subject to someone else's shop rates, you should have been told in advance. Its been my experience that some guys who are good machinists have poor business skills and a small operator really needs to be good at both.

      I know a guy around here who is working in the $75/hour range as I recall. He is generally busier than a one-armed paper hanger because he will tackle smaller jobs and his rates are lower. Some of the rest of the bigger shops around here are up over $100/hour (central Illinois).

      Me...I've never cut multi-start threads so I think I wouldn't do it for less than $100...it just sounds like a pain in the arse

      Paul
      Paul Carpenter
      Mapleton, IL

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by pcarpenter
        Me...I've never cut multi-start threads so I think I wouldn't do it for less than $100...it just sounds like a pain in the arse

        Paul
        So if you have never cut multi start before why do you want $100 to learn at someones expense and material ?

        Two start at 7 tpi means either special order tooling or grind your own up. Times this by 2 and you have the recipe for a lot of time wasting. Add in O1 as a material which doesn't help.

        That job was roughly priced at 2 hours and in reality it would take about 1 - 1/2 to do it by the time tooling and setup was taken into account.
        Allow another 1/2 hour for head scratching and it runs out about OK.

        .
        .

        Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



        Comment


        • #5
          So if you have never cut multi start before why do you want $100 to learn at someones expense and material ?
          I don't-- it was a joke. It does seem like a process requiring some care, however. I was really referencing my suggestion that perhaps the $100 (assuming his hourly rate assumptions were correct) came from someone who took longer to do it than an experienced machinist. Heck, the local shop had to farm it out...that says something about how many folks seem to know how to do this.

          I had a retired research machinist from Caterpillar suggest to me that multi-start threads were an example of something that would probably get farmed out today (by Cat) as there has not been a real T&D apprentice program for long enough now that the folks who knew how to do more than basic stuff are all retired or dead.

          Guys like you, John, are probably at an advantage....If you can't do it, who will? As such, you probably see more and know how to do far more because you handle so many things that are not even done by some machinists today. Being a jack of all trades can make you a master of all of them.
          Paul
          Paul Carpenter
          Mapleton, IL

          Comment


          • #6
            $100 sounds fair, not just anyone could whip it out.

            Comment


            • #7
              MickeyD!!

              MickeyD, could you please elaborate on the this comment...

              "A guy showed me a trick with shimming the tool over in the holder and after that it was as easy as could be. "

              Thanks

              Rgds
              Michael

              Australia

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tattoomike68
                $100 sounds fair, not just anyone could whip it out.
                I could. Multiple start threads are easy.

                When the programming prompts for "# of starts", I just enter the number of starts when I write the program.

                It's Simple.

                I wouldn't want to do it the old way anymore.
                Last edited by ERBenoit; 07-17-2008, 05:57 PM.
                Paying Attention Is Not That Expensive.

                Comment


                • #9
                  threading 0-1 is not much fun, at least for me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by miker
                    MickeyD, could you please elaborate on the this comment...

                    "A guy showed me a trick with shimming the tool over in the holder and after that it was as easy as could be. "

                    Thanks

                    Rgds
                    I think what he is saying is he moves the cutter to the side the distance of the thread pitch. As an example if you have a 8 tpi 2 start thread your thread pitch would be 1 divided by 8 which is .125" so you put a .125" shim next to your cutting tool and cut the next series of threads. This would be done with the machine set to cut 4 tpi.
                    If you wanted to cut an 8 tpi 4 start you would keep adding .125 shims for each thread start and set the machine to cut 2 tpi.

                    I still have to agree with ERBenoit I just program it and hit the start button.
                    Last edited by Mark Hockett; 07-17-2008, 09:30 PM.
                    Mark Hockett

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      $100 sounds fair, what wasn't fair is not giving a price before hand since you asked. I guess you could counterpoint that since he didnt give a price you could have just opted out, but he is a friend...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Another vote for he should have told you,but the $100 is fair.

                        I could have done it in 45 minutes since my lathe runs a 3-1/2 pitch in the QC,but that would have been $45 and a three week wait,otherwise it would have been $90 for same day.
                        I just need one more tool,just one!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Pricing

                          Weird and Mochinist have got it about right as regards the shop/contractor.

                          s I read it the Contractor did not give a price nor quote nor was he asked for one.

                          Premium time = accelerated job = premium rate.

                          No price/quote = "open-ended" cost/price on completion.

                          Many shops have a minimum as regards, charge, time or $/hour.

                          You'd have to expect to pay more for a "one off" as opposed to say 2, 4, 10 etc. as the "booking/administration" and set-up/tear-down times might well be about the same irrespective of the number of items to be done.

                          The Contactor is entitled to a fee for handling the job as he would have had to pay his (sub)Contractor who actully did the job.

                          He was quite in order to farm it out to someone else if he didn't have the time to do it "in house" in time.

                          There is nothing here to indicate that the Contractor could not do this screwing job - at all - just that - for his own reasons - that he "farmed it out".

                          How he gets it done and who he gets to do it is his right to choose, as all he has to do it get it done - unless he was specifically wanted or needed to do it personally.

                          Sometimes people don't want or need a job and just pull a "big number" out of the air as they "have to quote" as many think they have to quote on anything - don't know why because they don't. There is nothing wrong with refusing/declining to do a job or provide a quote either.

                          If the "big number" price/quote is accepted then he just has to get on with it as best he can.
                          Last edited by oldtiffie; 07-18-2008, 12:16 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I bet He lost money on the deal .
                            For cutting 7 TPI double you can easily do a manual lathe setup that is not to bad.
                            Look at the threading dial as a clock. You use 6 or 12 oclock for the first thread, and 3 or 9 oclock marks for the second thread, all without a change in tooling or chuck.
                            The extra work, is that a standardd toolbit does not have enough side clearance for such a fast thread. Result ..custom toolbit.
                            You CNC guys amaze me....I have never seen a CNC job--one/two off-- cheaper than a manual !
                            The O1 and custom tool cost

                            Rich
                            Green Bay, WI

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt
                              You CNC guys amaze me....I have never seen a CNC job--one/two off-- cheaper than a manual !
                              The O1 and custom tool cost

                              Rich
                              Rich,
                              Have you ever used a tool room CNC lathe? They are very fast for one offs, especially threading. On mine I can use an Aloris tool post and I have about 40 tool holders or I have an automatic tool turret for production work. Most of the common tools are usually set up in the offsets and ready to go. I just grab the tool, answer a few questions and hit start. How hard is it to cut a tapered pipe thread on a manual lathe? On my CNC lathe it is no harder to cut a tapered pipe thread than a straight thread.

                              Today I had to do a job that required a .124" bore X .140" deep with 3 degree tapered sides, 45 degree X .062" chamfer at the top and a .020" radius at the bottom. The customer sent me a DXF drawing which I loaded into my CAM system, clicked on the surfaces I wanted to machine, picked the tools and generated the tool paths. I used a .093" end mill to create the clearance bore for the .062" boring bar, so I only had to set up two tools. No special form tools were required and the final profile was cut in one continuous cut which left a perfect finish. This job also had tolerances of a few tenths, which would be difficult to hit on most manual lathes. I don't think any manual lathe would compete with that for time and accuracy. And when everything was said and done if the customer wants more its a simple process to pull up the file and run it.
                              Last edited by Mark Hockett; 07-18-2008, 03:43 AM.
                              Mark Hockett

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X