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OT: Sanding Oak Parts

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  • Swarf&Sparks
    replied
    True enough JC.
    Sorta like the tobacco warnings here (not that I suggest anyone takes up smoking!)
    Any death of a smoker, is automatically "tobacco related".


    "Yair mate, was the baccy that did for uncle Fred. He was just lightin' his pipe when that f**** truck ran 'im down!"

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  • JCHannum
    replied
    Agreed that it is always prudent to be informed as to the hazards involved in any operation and use appropriate personal protective equipment.

    But, predisposition to cancer is, to a large degree, hereditary. The statistics only enumerate those who get cancer through exposure to some substance. They do little to identify those who would have contracted cancer at any rate. Would a person who contacted cancer through exposure to, say, oak dust have contracted cancer through exposure to any other nuisance dust? I would say it is quite likely.

    It is just as likely that a person who is not predisposed to cancer could receive the same exposure to either dust and not contract cancer.

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  • Swarf&Sparks
    replied
    Yup, like stick welding cadmium plated telephone exchange steelwork, when I was an apprentice (never mind that white stuff son).
    Or the asbestos.....

    Ah well, I'm still here.

    I'm not suggesting anyone disregard precautions when the hazards are known.
    I do wonder about the bicycle police arresting me 'cos I'm not wearing a helmet/kneepads/elbow pads.......

    The "litigious society". Not "what can I do?", it's "who can I sue?".

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  • Evan
    replied
    It's a good idea to pay attention though, especially if you are young. The effect of one particular carcinogen such as oak may be insignificant but the effects of various combinations of minor carcinogens are additive. It's very well known that combining cigarette smoking with any number of other inhaled carcinogens greatly increases the risk, for instance.

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  • JCHannum
    replied
    Originally posted by Swarf&Sparks
    "it will be impossible to manufacture anything at all."

    Already happened JC.
    Why else would we be importing everything from Asia?
    Exactly.

    Since just about anything can be carcinogenic, and the list of "known carcinogens" is amended, appended and massaged daily, it is virtually impossible to be current with it.

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  • Swarf&Sparks
    replied
    "it will be impossible to manufacture anything at all."

    Already happened JC.
    Why else would we be importing everything from Asia?


    BTW, if "real" oak is anything like WA sheoak, with medullary rays, the flame/wire brush should work. Whether the wire brush is by hand or power, is obviously up to the scale of the job.

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  • Evan
    replied
    It's a matter of being informed Jim. It's easy to put on a N95 mask, that's all you need. Cedar is especially bad as it can cause athsma attacks which can be promptly fatal for some. That isn't an insignificant risk.

    It's your choice to expose yourself to a known carcinogen, IF you know about it.

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  • JCHannum
    replied
    If the application is a one time deal for a few handles, the purchase of major equipment is not justified. Steel wool is my choice for finishing in many of these cases. It does give a few problems with a wood that has an easily raised grain that might tear and pull fibers out of the wool, but a little care will prevent that from occuring. If it is just a matter of knocking down the fur before finishing, steel wool will probably take care of things.

    With the propensity for agencies such as the various OSHA entities to define carcinogens and other such "dangers" and assign values to them, we will eventually become so legislated that it will be impossible to manufacture anything at all.

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  • Swarf&Sparks
    replied
    Now, back to the woodwork.............


    I can't speak for hardwoods, other than my local eucalypts, however......
    what sort of finish are you after?

    Have you tried flame followed by wire brush?
    (followed by beeswax, oil, yeah, I know)

    Apart from that, would CNC router do the job?
    Possibly followed by tumbling/blasting/etc....

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    My point was when you look at the demographics of all types cancer in all age groups the types we are dealing with here are exceedingly rare.

    If you Google intranasal cancer in woodworkers you get ten or twelve sites that popup to the top.Half are saftey websites and the other half are trail lawyers.Litigation again plays a roll in awareness

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  • Evan
    replied
    What really makes these sort of stats difficult to interpret is that they are about 30 to 40 years old at least. Those numbers reflect the prevalance in people that received the possible exposure decades ago. We have no idea what the prevalance will be among those who are exposed today. This may be of extra concern when we count the possible synergistic effects of multiple synthetic chemicals that we are constantly breathing, ingesting and otherwise exposed to.

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  • wierdscience
    replied
    Originally posted by JCHannum
    The IARC rates wood dust as a Group A carcinogen. It would appear that there are quite a few hardwoods that are carcinogenic as well as cedar and pine. Nothing is safe anymore, we are all doomed.

    http://www.gregmach.com/new_machiner...rtant_info.htm
    "
    Demographics

    Malignant growths of the paranasal sinuses are uncommon in the general population. Paranasal sinus cancer represents 3% of all cancers in the upper aerodigestive tract (air and food passages) and less than 1% of all malignancies in the body. The incidence of paranasal sinus cancer is about one case per 100,000 people per year in the United States. Only about 200 new cases a year are diagnosed in the United States. The disease is more common in Asia Minor and China than in Western countries. The incidence of maxillary sinus cancer is highest in the South African Bantus and in Japan.

    Paranasal sinus tumors occur about two to three times more frequently in men than women, and diagnosis usually occurs between the ages of 50 and 70. Cancers of the maxillary sinus are the most common of the paranasal sinus cancers, occurring in about 80% of individuals. Tumors of the ethmoidal sinuses are less common (about 20%), and tumors of the sphenoidal and frontal sinuses are rarest (less than 1%).

    Squamous cell carcinoma (cancer that originates from squamous keratinocytes in the epidermis, the top layer of the skin) is the most frequent type of malignant tumor in the paranasal sinuses (about 80%). Adenocarcinomas (cancer that begins in cells that line certain internal organs and that have glandular, or secretory, properties) constitute 15%, and the remaining 5% are composed of all other types."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I wonder how many of the 200 cases a year are woodworkers?Even better I wonder how many of the 40 people who's nasal cancer isn't caused by melenoma are woodworkers?

    With 300,000,000 people now,I'll bet the odds of hitting the power ball are better.

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  • Paul Alciatore
    replied
    Thanks all. Some great ideas here. My part has a lot of curves, complex curves so I don't think any drum or belt sander would be a good idea as it would try to flatten those curves.

    I don't want a fine furniture finish, just enough to remove anything that would interfere with it's use by irritating the hand of the person using it. I was hoping to sand only once, not over and over as a finish is applied (probably polyurethane).

    And I guess a mask is in order to prevent breathing the dust. I may take it outside on a windy day to sand.

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  • CCWKen
    replied
    I don't particularly like oak for handles. You have to keep them oiled all the time or they make splinters. And what good is a handle if it's polished? I save all the old shagbark hickory spokes from Model T wheels to make handles.

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  • Paul Alciatore
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    Many woods are suspected carcinogens. However both oak and beech are proven to cause cancer in woodworkers according to OSHA.

    Great, just great.

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