Team builds?

[Your Old Dog]

Someone wanted to know where Sir John, Earl of Suds pump water was recently.

This thread: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php??

was advanced in the discussion.

Well I went there and viewed there site and it looks like a nice bunch of guys. I particularly liked there Team Build section. It gives you a focus to only produce one part and make it to the best of your ability. It promotes comradeship and looks like a lot of fun and informative as well. Will I be joining there forum? Not likely, I like the gang here as they are a little like family to me, maybe a little dysfunctional but family none-the-less!

What's the chance of pulling off a project like that on this site? Maybe not engines but maybe tooling for shop use or that kind of thing.

What say you? How would we start? Would we all suggest projects and then vote on them? Could we have maybe 5 or 5 guys on a team and more then one team at a time?

[DR]

If I understand correctly, a project is decided on and each team member builds a certain part. Then the parts are assembled to completion.

This brings up something that's puzzled me for years. Plans in HSM very seldom have tolerancing. Without a tolerance range on the dimensions I see it as near impossible to have parts made to fit together in separate shops around the country.

[Scishopguy]

Re: Team Builds?

As Doc says, tolerances can cause some real problems. One place I worked built top of the line boat winches, with cut gears and bronze bushings. The owner's son came back from Georgia Tech. (flunked out, prolly) and drew up the plans for the new square drive model. He assigned tollerances with no regard to the accumulation that affected where clip slots were cut or pin holes drilled on the shafts. Ten thousand parts later, they were scratching their heads and trying to blame it on the machinists. That didn't fly, however, because we all had the detail print with the tolerances JR. had specified. It can be a can of worms if you aren't careful.

Are you guys sure you want to send out these invitations to a "cat fight?"

[ptjw7uk]

Talking of tolerances reminds me of a story my father told me. When he worked at the Royal Small Arms factory in Enfield he was related the story of how the first Bren gun was put together with all parts selected to the highest value and the gun would not fire so I assume they then put in a random selection(he never said which)
He also recanted the story of the original long barrel which he machined which unfortunately would emprty the magazine all into the same spot as the Bren was as accurate as a rifle they subsequently produced a shorter barrel with some modifications so to try and scatter the rounds. A bit like the Sten gun which I have heard discribed as a gun with which you would be hard put to hit a barn from the inside!!!

Slightly off topic but the what the heck!!

Peter

[lazlo]

I wondered about the wide variety of skill associated with the various team members, and the resulting tolerance and finish issues.
If I understand correctly, each team member makes N number of parts, so everyone gets a set of parts for a complete model engine.

Talking of tolerances reminds me of a story my father told me. When he worked at the Royal Small Arms factory in Enfield he was related the story of how the first Bren gun was put together with all parts selected to the highest value and the gun would not fire so I assume they then put in a random selection(he never said which)

There was an episode of the short-lived Discovery Channel series: Tank Overhauling, where the British team was cutting two Sherman tanks in half, and welding the good glacis from one tank onto the good chassis from the other. The Brits were marveling at how precise all the parts were, that they could interchange all the parts between the two Shermans.

They cut to a 10 minute historical backgrounder talking about how the Americans applied automotive industrial engineering to tanks for the first time, which was a big reason they could pump-out so many Shermans.

Now, these guys had just finished a Tiger tank overhaul, and the Tiger had all custom parts, so for each missing piece they had to decide between finding a part from another Tiger and modifying it to fit, or making a whole new part. Most of the time, the guys rebuilding the Tigers chose the latter.

[hornluv]

I like the idea. They do it one of two ways. Either one engine is built and it is put on display or sold for charity, or enough parts are made for everyone on the team and everybody gets a (hopefully) working engine. I like the latter option myself, especially if we built tools instead. How would we handle the financial aspect of it? Would each part builder foot the bill for the materials and shipping of their parts to the other members of the team? Seems like makers of larger parts would get the shaft that way.

[Your Old Dog]

Well, as I write this, 181 people have looked at the thread and 4 have found it an interesting enough idea to comment on it Maybe we could do a team build of hatchets, knives or zip guns? Something to take out fellow forum members who try to smoke us!

I would certainly fall into the rookie category on any parts I make. You probably wouldn't want me making any gears for the project. But, I think these builds are a great learning experience and would no doubt cause you to work to closer tolerance and finish then you might otherwise do if only working on a project for yourself. I think pride in workmanship is a good motivator.

Maybe if 6 people post after it's been read by 1 or 2000 people then maybe we ought to go for it. !

[lazlo]

Well, as I write this, 181 people have looked at the thread and 4 have found it an interesting enough idea to comment on it Maybe we could do a team build of hatchets, knives or zip guns?

If you're looking for people to commit YOD -- sign me up That's the best excuse for shop time I can think of -- that I'm on the hook for a team build.

"Honestly Honey, if I don't finish these widgits by Sunday, YOD is going to kick my a$$"

[Lew Hartswick]

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?? Will I be joining there forum? Not likely, I like the gang here as they are a little like family to me, maybe a little dysfunctional but family none-the-less!

YOD, You know youre alowed to "join" more than one group. :-)
I read 4 other BBs besides this one. Or at least look over the
topics and read some of them. In one case I only look at two of the
categories and most of the others only 3 or 4. It takes me about an
hour a day (sometimes a little longer if I have to comment or post a
picture) :-) Now Rec.crafts.metalworking is another matter entirely.
:-)
...lew...

[Your Old Dog]

Well Lou, that would make me a poligmyst or something else I can't spell either, a filanderer ! Besides that, it takes me an hour to try and figure out if Norm is slamming me or not. It's a loyalty thing to me. I learned a lot from you guys. Well...... maybe not a lot but I did learn little. Well that might be stretching it too but I did learn that if you are having trouble machining something to try holding your tongue the other way. It's important to hold it just right . I got that one from Sir John but it's the only thing I learned from him. Most everything else he has to say goes over my head.

[Dragons_fire]

depending on the project, i would be in too. although my skills arent the greatest so things may not turn out perfect.

thanks to some parts Fasttrack sent me, i should have an aluminum foundry going soon. i have some pics of the build, but i dont want to start a thread until its a little farther along. so if there is cast parts in the project, and i get the foundry going, i could do those parts.

[John R]

Sign me up
John R

[rmack898]

At this point it looks like 5 people are in, and I'll make it 6. It can be discussed forever and not move forward, so if no one steps up and wants to take action to get the ball rolling, I will (although I don't want to step on anyone's toes). I just think this is such a good idea not to give it a try. If we start out with a simple tooling project we can see how it works without costing anyone a substantial $um.

This could be the beta test for this type of project, who knows, it may work out real well and we might have several teams doing different projects at the same time.

Members willing to participate so far

YOD
Hornluv
Lazlo
Dragon
John R
Rmack898

Anyone else? Lew, are you in?

[dockterj]

count me in if it is something that a rank beginner can do.

[Mike Burdick]

... maybe tooling for shop use or that kind of thing....

Perhaps after the group is finished with the project the item can be put up for auction with the proceeds going to an established education fund or a new scholarship sponsored by HMS. Maybe companies like "Enco" could help out the scholarship fund it too....in return for all the free advertising they get here!

...and of course the final project and plans could be published in HMS since all the "bugs" will be worked out!