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  • #16
    Originally posted by clutch
    Not sure how things are on your side of the pond, but on this side, if you are doing commercial work out of your shop that is insured on a homeowners policy, you could be in for the surprise of your life after a fire.

    Clutch
    Who said the shop was insured?

    It also goes against the terms of the mortgage, the estate we live on has rules about it as well, so has the local council and probably others would like to stick their beaky nose in as well.

    I have one gesture for them and it involves one of my middle fingers.

    With the situation as it is, i will take any options going to increase my income through use of my skills.

    Dave
    If it does'nt fit, hit it.
    https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
    http://www.davekearley.co.uk

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DR
      That won't keep you in the game for long.

      These days with modern CNC machines even simple parts can be done less expensively than on a manual machine. This is why I emphasize your pricing has to account for your machinery. If you don't have the equivalent machinery of the local shops don't expect the same rate.
      Your comparing apples to oranges.If the OP had a Seig lathe and a bench drillpress,then yes he would take significantly longer to make the same parts and he wouldn't be able to charge the same rates based soley on horsepower alone.However if he has a decent 14" Lathe and Vertical mill,then yes he can charge the same rates as a manual job shop because he won't take much longer than they would to make the same parts.He also might beat them.A lot of attitudes get stepped on by HSM shops,mainly by bigger shops with huge overheads that can't really compete in reality.

      I've been running a manual shop for the last 18 years.I have seen quite a few shops go and come most of them CNC.Cut throat pricing is usually to blame,instead of turning a profit they get into a price pissing contest and lose.
      I just need one more tool,just one!

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      • #18
        The bottom line for pricing is that it has to be enough to satisfy you.

        If the customer doesn't want to pay you what you think your time and expenses are worth then show them the door.

        There is no use in working on a job that you aren't going to make money off of, your not a charity, just because someone else thinks they should get a bargain.
        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

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        • #19
          All depends on what you can build and what you have to work with. But I charge 3 times my hourly rate i get at work . Between 65 and 75 dollars per hour depending on how hard the job is to do. My time is worth as much as any one else`s. I once knew a fellow who had a real weird way of charging for work but he had more work than any one else. He would ask his customers how much they made a year based on a 2000 hour year and charge them by the same hour rate they made . So if you made $20.00 an hour you were charged $20.00 if $40.00 an hour he charged $40.00an hour. Go figure.
          Last edited by lane; 10-12-2008, 06:16 PM.
          Every Mans Work Is A Portrait of Him Self
          http://sites.google.com/site/machinistsite/TWO-BUDDIES
          http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lan...?sort=3&page=1

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          • #20
            Originally posted by wierdscience
            Your comparing apples to oranges.If the OP had a Seig lathe and a bench drillpress,then yes he would take significantly longer to make the same parts and he wouldn't be able to charge the same rates based soley on horsepower alone.However if he has a decent 14" Lathe and Vertical mill,then yes he can charge the same rates as a manual job shop because he won't take much longer than they would to make the same parts.He also might beat them.A lot of attitudes get stepped on by HSM shops,mainly by bigger shops with huge overheads that can't really compete in reality.

            I've been running a manual shop for the last 18 years.I have seen quite a few shops go and come most of them CNC.Cut throat pricing is usually to blame,instead of turning a profit they get into a price pissing contest and lose.
            No, I don't think I am.

            I just feel you have to be sure your home shop is as well equipped as a commercial shop if you want to use the commercial shop rate for home jobs. And the home shop guy should have experience to match also. This would apply to both manual and CNC, use the commercial rate only if you have comparable equipment.

            I have subbed work out to home shop guys (a friend who begged for work). The guy even had a Hardinge tool room lathe ($$$$), which is easily capable of holding the tolerances needed. Unfortunately he wasn't.

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            • #21
              rate

              I stopped charging by the hour and now charge by the job.
              What's the item worth to the customer?How quick to they want it?
              ( I am a little different as I do this full time/to make a living)
              You have machinery,perishable tools,measuring tools, heat,lights,etc.
              PLUS know-how!
              Never sell yourself short.
              Charge as much as you can get!
              please visit my webpage:
              http://motorworks88.webs.com/

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lane
                All depends on what you can build and what you have to work with. But I charge 3 times my hourly rate i get at work . Between 65 and 75 dollars per hour depending on how hard the job is to do. My time is worth as much as any one else`s. I once knew a fellow who had a real weird way of charging for work but he had more work than any one else. He would ask his customers how much they made a year based on a 2000 hour year and charge them by the same hour rate they made . So if you made $20.00 an hour you were charged $20.00 if $40.00 an hour he charged $40.00an hour. Go figure.
                thats a more than fair way to figure out labor. but if you also have a regular job besides, you should take his wage figure and time & one half that.

                if its evening or weekend work, its overtime. . . . with reason.

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                • #23
                  He would ask his customers how much they made a year based on a 2000 hour year and charge them by the same hour rate they made .

                  Oooh, I'll have to remember THAT one next time Larry Ellison comes in the shop. . .
                  Cheers,

                  Frank Ford
                  HomeShopTech

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    motorworks is right. Dont charge by the piece, charge by the job. If they want 10 pieces. Give them the price for those 10. If they want 5 then the price will be different, but not half of 10.

                    Either that or charge a flat set up fee and then price per part after that.

                    When estimating figure how long you think it will take and then double or triple it because thats really how long it is going to take.

                    I charge $60/hr and $90/hr for rush. This is still cheap compared to most machine shops.

                    Following these rules I made some decent money on my projects and always came almost dead on time estimation.

                    Oh, and they dont get their parts until you see your money.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Some of you guys are charging what seems to me like high shop rates for at home work.

                      Also, do I detect a "screw the customer before he screws me attitude" in some of these posts?

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                      • #26
                        Your right macona, today finished a job that I thought I used a heavy pencil on and even added some to the time after that. When I added the material, delivery fee and labor I rounded it up the to $400. They jumped on my bid. My labor bid was 8.9 hrs and I thought that was high. When I finished I had 11hrs-23 minutes in it. I don't waste time and hustle as much as I can.

                        I could have taken my first figure of 7.5 hrs and doubled it to 15 hrs and not had to chase my butt so hard. I think they would have still said do it. The problem is they have three more machines they may want to repair and now the price is set.

                        Then there's the times I try to keep the price low for someone and lose my butt on the deal.

                        Some day I will learn how to bid. At least it has always come in above my lowest labor rate.
                        Last edited by Carld; 10-12-2008, 09:57 PM.
                        It's only ink and paper

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                        • #27
                          "The local, well run shop"

                          You "ASS U ME" that he isn't the only well run show. There is a local well run shop in my town, and they do only oilfield work, so they are out, and the other shop, well, lets just say the owner should spend much time in the sunlight after sucking all his customers dry!

                          If its a hobby gig, charge enough that you are happy about it after you are done with the job. If you finish a job and wish you had never taken it, you didn't charge enough.
                          James Kilroy

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                          • #28
                            jkilroy, , that's my thoughts also.
                            It's only ink and paper

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DR
                              No, I don't think I am.

                              I just feel you have to be sure your home shop is as well equipped as a commercial shop if you want to use the commercial shop rate for home jobs. And the home shop guy should have experience to match also. This would apply to both manual and CNC, use the commercial rate only if you have comparable equipment.

                              I have subbed work out to home shop guys (a friend who begged for work). The guy even had a Hardinge tool room lathe ($$$$), which is easily capable of holding the tolerances needed. Unfortunately he wasn't.
                              Well equipped is a pretty broad standard,I have seen home shops with MUCH better equipment than commercial shops I have worked in.Why?Because the owner cared more.

                              Just because somebody has a lathe or mill doesn't mean they know what they are doing.It is also true that just because a commercial shop has loads of the latest machines doesn't mean they know what they're doing either.
                              I just need one more tool,just one!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wierdscience
                                Well equipped is a pretty broad standard,I have seen home shops with MUCH better equipment than commercial shops I have worked in.
                                Yep, I'm one of them, or so I have been told.

                                I think I charged about $2500 to make 10 of these including materials, and they were going to do the finishing! They wanted them from one piece of aluminum and the holes needed to be accurate because of gearing mounted to it.:

                                Last edited by macona; 10-13-2008, 12:42 AM.

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