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  • #16
    Well, which scientists? The ones who said it flowed, or the ones who said it didn't?

    I know how to get it to flow, though, and you do have to hold your mouth right ':-)

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    • #17
      Oso

      I am going for the sell outs - Physicists need Vipers too!

      A friend manipulates time and matter by wagging his tongue side to side while it is sticking out. I think it is a visual indicator of brain activity, or lack thereof...

      BigHammer

      No, no, that is how you fix WindowsXP!

      dave

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      • #18
        I have used the shear method under h20. you start at a edge and "nibble" in take Very light cuts. the h20 stops flying glass and lubs the edge a bit its very coarse and ok for ovals and slight curves but as far as i know can not drill a hole

        <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by George Hodge:
        Don't remember where I read about this,but you're supposed to be able to cut glass with hand shears,if the glass is submerged under water. Might work in drilling too? Sounds kinda farfetched,but I haven't tried it. I did drill a bunch of holes in a ceramic pot with a 1/4in. concrete drill. Diamonds make the prettiest holes!</font>

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        • #19
          This has nothing to do with Li's original question, because I don't have any experience with drilling through glass. I do, however, want to bring some information in for Thrud's defense.

          According to my Industrial and Engineering Materials book by Henry Clauser from 1975 (I don't believe that all of the information is outdated yet), glass is a "noncrystalline". To manufacture it, a mixture of silica (silicon dioxide) and other oxides (i.e. lead, boron, aluminum, sodium, potassium, to name a few) is melted and then cooled to a "rigid" condition. "Glass does not change from a liquid to a solid at a fixed temperature, but remains in a vitreous, noncrystalline state, and is considered a supercooled liquid." With the relative positions of its atoms being similar to those of a liquid, the structure has a "short-range order". However, since glass has a 3-dimensional structure, with covalent bonds present (as in many solids), the atoms tend to maintain an ordered structure because of the continuous network of these strong bonds.

          What all that means is, given enough time (maybe a few thousand years) your windows will melt into a puddle of silica. KEEP YOUR EYES ON IT AND SEE.

          Give 'em hell, Thrud!!!!!!!!!

          ------------------
          RPease
          RPease

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          • #20
            I want to chime in on the liquid glass comments. My father worked in the glass industry (the old Hazel Atlas works in Wheeling, WV) and I got the benefit of lots of fascinating discussions on glass at gatherings of his friends at the house. I can look at a humdrum glass salt shaker on a restaraunt counter and rightly claim to know the designer. Kinda like having a rich uncle - fun to talk about but doesn't put any change in my pocket. Anyway -- glass is a liquid at any temp that exists natually on this earth.

            Craig

            [This message has been edited by decoy91288 (edited 01-12-2002).]
            Craig

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            • #21
              RP, Craig

              Whew! Thanks for further explaining my brash statement. For a second I thought I lost my mind...again. (I hate that when that happens) I never had any doubt in Scientific American - they are not know to "BS" even in an April issue - I like that in a magazine.

              Dave

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              • #22
                If glass flows, the folks using huge glass telescope mirrors that have to be accurate to the wavelength of light don't know about it yet.
                The 200 inch Palomar mirror (glass) has been installed now for what, 50 plus years?
                The cathedrals were built in about 1200 AD, so Palomar has not had its mirror flow by the wavelength of light in 50 years, but in only 16 times that long, the cathedral glass flowed enough to be visually noticed?
                I see a problem here.
                Seriously, the flow theory has been exploded.
                The state of glass is "glassy" which is a bit different from exactly like a liquid. I had it explained to me by a physicist, but I don't think I could do it justice if I tried to pass it along.

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                • #23
                  Oso:
                  Mt. Palomar actually regrinds the mirror every few years. (Pyrex - not glass) The old 200" is showing its age. Newer telescopes are being built using a large array of smaller "bendable/tunable mirrors" which they use a argon laser to fine tune the scope to the atmosheric conditions. When these new telescopes come on line resolution close to the HST's will be available on Earth. This has only been possible with advances in the last two years. The ESA has produced stunning composite photos of the Ghost Head Nebula.

                  This is just a stop gap until the new Space Telescope (forget its actual name) is built & launched in 10-20 years

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                  • #24
                    Betcha mean re-silvering.

                    Re-grinding is a huge task, and they wouldn't have the cash for that.

                    Silvering is regularly done whenever enough defects show up.
                    Kitt peak has a commercial operation doing re-silvering, they do their own on a schedule, but take in other work as well.
                    It is associated with their large telescope.
                    Interesting place to visit.
                    Don't think they would ship the 200 inch that far, though.
                    I'll see if I can find the reference on debunking glass flow.

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                    • #25
                      thurd I only got windows 98 bough a computer used, ain't I smart??? Thinking about drilling som holes in top to squirt in some WD 40 onw and then, might work better yhan hammer and punch. Next one will be from star ship Enterprise,I talk to it and it makes the parts.......I should live so long.

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                      • #26
                        Big Hammer
                        Does not matter if you buy them new or used - a computer is out of date before you pay for it.

                        Oso,
                        They repolish it, a full re-grind is out of the question as you say. Despite its age it still is a beauty - amazing that they could even make it back then.

                        Dave

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                        • #27
                          I'm A firm believer of glass being a fluid.It reminds me of a time back in the 70's when my parents and I camped out in the Mojave desert.I came across an old bottle in the sand half way exposed to the surface.The side exposed appeared to be warped toward the center.My guess is that, not only did gravity have a contributing factor on the liqueousness of the glass,but the intense heat and radiation from the sun may have accellerated the sagging process.
                          And, as far as the drilling of the hole goes,(going back to my high school shop days)I can remember this freakish little machine that used ultra high frequency to buzz holes through glass.If my memory serves me right,the pin (being .250 dia. in this case)oscillated up and down at 120 kilohertz,with a stroke length of about 50 millionths of an inch.It sure was a sight to see a pin pass through a piece of .375 thick tempered plate glass.It took about 5 minutes.My shop instructor even made a 5-pointed star on the end of a 1/2 dia.pin and buzzed it through the same piece of glass (came out perfect) "Imagine that", an EDM for glass....AAaaahhhaaa ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha....
                          And to the guy who posted a thread earlier on this topic about using a sledge hammer on his piece of glass,,"Well ,my hats off to ya buddy ,because you've got the same patience I do..Laters

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                          • #28
                            Dave
                            That would be an ultrasonic transducer. Never seen one used for holes, but I have seen them spot weld plastics together - like teflon.

                            Dave

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                            • #29
                              Thrud, when was the last time you visited Cal Tech? The Palomar main mirror was ground and figured in a dedicated temperature controlled, cork-lined room. That room was more recently used -- I was there -- to finish the multi-panelled reflector for the IR telescope being built to go on Mauna Kea. All of the original equipment used to prepare the Palomar glass is gone. The carrier to move the mirror is gone. Preparing and finishing the IR reflector took 4 years. I think you are referring to re-aluminizing the Palomar mirror which is done on-site, in an adjacent room, about every 2 years. I did my dissertation research using glass (not at Palomar). It doesn't flow.

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                              • #30
                                Hiya,

                                If I was going to put a hole in a glass bottle, I would use masking tape as a stencil, and sand blast the hole. I would put a rag inside to protect the glass from becoming frosted.

                                Wade
                                Wade

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