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Fitting a D nose face plate?

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  • Fitting a D nose face plate?

    Uncle Pete's thread got me thinking... I never did get my faceplate fitted on my lathe.
    It came with the machine but it was obviously never tested at the china factory...it won't fit.
    The taper on the faceplate doesn't match the taper on the spindle.
    I've been putting this off because I still haven't found a good way to mount the faceplate to turn the taper out.
    Of course...it has to be mounted or held...backwards with a four jaw somehow.
    Then you'd have to tear the whole setup down, take the chuck off, etc....how many times for trial fits etc.
    I'm wondering...would it be better to somehow scrape this taper and use blue to keep testing it with?
    The taper is inside the hub (obviously) and down in there about 1 1/2".
    I'm assuming that this taper is the way a D nose chuck or faceplate is centered?
    It doesn't need much taken off...it ALMOST fits but not quite. any ideas? Thanks!
    Russ
    I have tools I don't even know I own...

  • #2
    Scraping that much would not appeal.

    Perhaps bolt something like a pipe flange to the face plate, and then grab the hub in the 4 jaw. Get it nice and square/concentric, dial the taper to perfection (VERY short) using the compound, dust off. Remove as a unit for test fit. But be careful, that is a very short fairly slow taper, taking off more than a tiny bit may make it far too big (I know you know that, but had to say it )...
    Russ
    Master Floor Sweeper

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    • #3
      Russ...that's what I'm afraid off...be pretty easy to take off a whisker too much. Good idea on the pipe flange.
      I have tools I don't even know I own...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by torker
        The taper is inside the hub (obviously) and down in there about 1 1/2".
        I'm assuming that this taper is the way a D nose chuck or faceplate is centered?
        It doesn't need much taken off...it ALMOST fits but not quite. any ideas? Thanks!
        Russ
        1 - 1/2" ??




        Depending on what size it is it can only be 7/16" to 5/8" deep.

        Because it's a very short taper it's hard to dial in.
        Best way is to use a parallel bar in the chuck, set the top slide to a tad over 7 degrees and zero a dial gauge at a point on the bar.
        Now advance 1" on the top slide and the dial gauge should read plus or minus 0.124" depending on which way you have the top slide pointed.

        That's the taper.

        Now for fit it is best to make a short dummy spindle nose up, turning at this setting unto a known chuck or backplate fits exact.

        Note you can keep the setting of the topslide to do intenal or external if you turn the boring bar over and still cutting in forwatd take the cuts off the back of the work.

        This way you get to keep the exact taper.

        Sounds long winded but it's actually quicker than it sounds.

        Incidentally the taper on the D series is exactly the same as on the European A series and provided you can get frest studs in they are interchangeable

        .
        .

        Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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        • #5
          First set your compound using a test indicator on the compound. Indicate the back side of the taper. Now your compound is ready to cut the taper on the faceplate. Mount faceplate and using test indicator see how bad it is then you know if you want to take a cut. You might also take measurements of small end, large end and length of the taper in the lathe. This would tell you if a duplicated taper would be too small.

          Bob

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          • #6
            By "down in there", I think he means he has one like one of mine. Some are only maybe 3/4" or less deep, and that's it. But I've got one with a rear bore at least 1.25 deep, and the taper extends for near an inch (or so memory says) even though it seats on only half the taper. I figured he meant he had one of the latter.

            And speaking of A/D similarities, I just ran into that. Long story, but I wound up with an A6 Jacob's Rubberflex chuck that had a D1-6 back plate. The back plate had been modified with an A6 face! Stacked run out was unacceptable, so now I'm trying to sell an A6 chuck (anyone?). But while fooling with it, I got to see first hand the similarity. And apparently some folks just mount 3 pins to convert.
            Russ
            Master Floor Sweeper

            Comment


            • #7
              Geez...John you are right. I was just looking at it hanging on the wall last nite...the hole IS 1 1/2" deep...but the taper is only maybe 1/2" long and would be on the outside if the plate was mounted backwards.
              Went and complicated things before I even got going
              Yeesh...I'm going to be waiting a bit...it is REALLY cold in the shop..LOL!
              I have a bucket of water sitting about in the middle of the floor. It's frozen down about 2". Turned the stove down a bit too much for -30 I reckon.
              I have tools I don't even know I own...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Ford
                First set your compound using a test indicator on the compound.

                Bob
                For the "short taper" spindles, even the ones this size, the taper is SO short, you could be off by an unacceptable amount and still barely twitch a tenths indicator. Probably ok, but depends on how "good" you are at indicating.

                A better solution might be to set it close with indicator, then turn a full compound travel taper in a piece of scrap. Then measure carefully and compare against the standard. The long cut would magnify any error. Tweak until you are within acceptable tolerance, THEN mount and square/center the face plate for the taper adjustment...
                Russ
                Master Floor Sweeper

                Comment


                • #9
                  BD,
                  The D and A taper is 0.124" in 1" of topslide travel, that's long enough to get a good reading.
                  It's also easy to remember as if you say 1/8" over 1" the odd thou won't matter if you are polishing to a fit.

                  .
                  .

                  Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Agreed, if you've got a 1" long standard to check. Perhaps dial a sine bar?

                    But I was mostly thinking in terms of difficulty measuring and quantifying cut tapers with extreme accuracy. By turning one 3" long or so, errors in measurement are also reduced. But I suppose 1" long, with a high resolution and good/accurate DI, carefully set exactly on center, with 1" axial travel measured exactly with another DI on the bed (or DRO), and that should easily be good enough.

                    Oh well, brain getting foggy, been up half the night with leg pain. Time to go see if I can get another bit of shut-eye while the day warms a bit...
                    Russ
                    Master Floor Sweeper

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BadDog
                      Agreed, if you've got a 1" long standard to check.
                      No put a parallel bar in the chuck, zero a DTI at one point on the bar, then travel the TOP slide that is set over to just over 7 degrees for one inch the DTI should read 0.124"

                      Adjust the top slide setover to suit.

                      .
                      .

                      Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Torker,

                        Dunno what you've got there to use with mounting the faceplate, but on my four jaw, I can take all the jaws out, then use the jaw slots for T-nuts as though it were another faceplate. In that case, you can mount the two chucks face to face and dial in.
                        .
                        "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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                        • #13
                          Thanks guys!
                          TG...that's pure genius. I've never heard that one before.
                          I have tools I don't even know I own...

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                          • #14
                            Oh wow, talk about can't see the forest for the trees!!! Thanks for clearing my head and pointing out the obvious!

                            Edit: One thing, wouldn't that be 1" along the axis? So you would need to trig out either a slightly different opposite side, or different top slide travel (hypotenuse).
                            Last edited by BadDog; 12-20-2008, 03:21 PM.
                            Russ
                            Master Floor Sweeper

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No the one inch is calculated along the top slide.
                              Along the bed would be 0.992"

                              .
                              .

                              Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                              Comment

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