Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Perceptions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Perceptions

    After a bit of brain scrambling, and finger cramps, it becomes quite obvious that at times, answers we post are not always pertinent to the questions asked in the respect of what was asked was not necessarily not what we though we read. It doesn't help when the goalposts start moving and the linesmen start using different coloured flags and rule books and the playing surface changes from clay through grass to ice.

    To put this into context, on three posts I replied to recently, two I think I read and understood correctly and the third I may have missunderstood the original requirement and it's easy to see how old farts, like ME get frustrated and go apesh4t when we don't get all the facts and are trying desperately to help.

    Hope Torker don't suffer from brain fade over the CNCisation of "The Gurl". I thought he made it abundantly clear that her machining prowess was being seriously handicapped by her thirst for a challenge and a way forward to help both her AND he was a cheap intro into a CNC set up using a basic CHEAP unit. Floods of good advise, but then into the realms of VMC's and mass production quantities. Great if your going to take over from H. Ford, but no good if you want the ability to make half a dozen three times a year.
    Before I'm shouted down on this one, many years ago, when F1 cars had turbo's fitted, a company I worked for, supplied a bit essential for the retention of the turbo to the engine. The customer was a Japanese manufacturer renowned for its capability in engine prowess, so why did they come to a miniscule supplier in a West Yorkshire town for the bit. It wasn't cos they couldn't make the bit themselves, but they took 50 pieces a month over the racing season cos we had the ability to be able to change the design to suit their requirements quickly and cheaply. If big "H" had made them, on pressing the go button, there would have been a thousand on the floor within 1/4 of an hour. Horses for courses.

    Second was T-M's (Bless him) request how to make the clock clamp. Now I stuck up for him cos he wanted to know how it works, fine, but on a previous flamer when someone else had a go at him for trying to design an advaced tool grinder, and was castigated, it don't bear thinking about the frustration of showing a complete breakdown of the object in question, and then having to explain the whys and wherefores of a mechanically basic assembly. Everybody has to learn, and being shown the finished object from a slightly different photographic angle, I could have worked out how to make it, yes, and thats due to years in the trade, but at his age, I knew how tapered wedges worked and how to stop things falling out of the end of tubes.
    I bet he can beat the cr4p out of me playing "Descent" and "Doom 4" though.

    The last one was fancy curves. I hope Neil gets the chance to go see how to do what some of us who've actually done it, did it, and if thats what he wanted to achive in the first place. I hold my hand up to possibly missunderstanding the question he asked, or I THOUGHT he asked. It may be that he only requires to know how to bore bigger holes in a plate using a milling cutter and a Rotab (O bl**dy K) rather than a boring head, and moving the workpiece and clamping for each hole centre. Still don't know, cos despite at least two of us asking for a sketch of what he's trying to do, we still don't know.

    I used to have a scripture pinned to the wall of my office (I'll bet Sir John Has seen/got one) that started "We the willing, led by --" and I've forgotten the middle bit, but ended "Now attempt the impossible, with Bu**er all"

    It's MOST vexing when you're trying to answer, don't get logical feedback, get hit with answers that weren't part of the original question (Forget the OP's cos they're an amusing destraction {at times}). An if yer gonna use "Quotes" put them in CONTEXT.

    Witter over,

    Dizzy Regards Ian.
    Last edited by Circlip; 01-19-2009, 02:50 PM.
    You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Circlip




    I used to have a scripture pinned to the wall of my office (I'll bet Sir John Has seen/got one) that started "We the willing, led by --" and I've forgotten the middle bit, but ended "Now attempt the impossible, with Bu**er all"



    Regards Ian.
    I wrote it and still have copyright on it

    There are various versions

    We the Willing
    Led by the Unknowing
    Are doing the Impossible
    For the Ungrateful.

    We have done So Much
    With So Little
    For So Long
    We are now Qualified

    ***************

    We the willing,
    led by the ignorant,
    do the impossible
    for the ungrateful
    for so long
    with so little,
    that we are now experts
    at doing anything
    with nothing.



    .
    Last edited by John Stevenson; 01-19-2009, 02:39 PM.
    .

    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



    Comment


    • #3
      Oh, WHAT a surprise.
      You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well it's a bargin this BBS,given what we pay for it and how much more a person gets when they post here
        I just need one more tool,just one!

        Comment


        • #5
          WTF I dont play doom3 ect like that, I make chips!


          As far as the DTI holder:

          I can tell how the tapered ends of the push rods work, but I have no photo that shows the parts clearyl.


          The things I try to "kick ass" at are learning about stuff, and chip making.
          Last edited by Teenage_Machinist; 01-19-2009, 03:12 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            yeah, what weird says....no ones a paid consultant (not that I think you were implying that) so its a bit of crap shoot what direction a thread goes ........all and all though its imo a better and enjoyable environment than the moderated boards...you take the good with the bad.

            I believe a good approach, instead of it being the unpaid talent's no-no (who are willing to contribute massive amounts of knowhow and experience) for answering less than directly, the OP has to take responsibility for getting the answers needed; repeating his question, bringing it back on topic, re phrasing it or asking subsequent drill down Q's
            .
            .

            Comment


            • #7
              Perceptions

              It was in cheap frame and standing on what was an cheaper bit of furniture in an always icecold room whose miserable gaslight lit up the words of Rudyard Kipling.

              Perhaps someone who is more computer literate than me can post it here.
              It is the words of 'IF'

              For those who think that this is yet another one of Norman's so called Classical Comments, a bit reads

              'Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
              And stoop and build 'em up with worn out tools'

              Norman

              Comment


              • #8
                We had a sign over our maintenance shack in Viet Nam that said; "We have done so much with so little for so long, that with nothing, we can do damn near anything" And that is just about what they expected. LOL

                Patrick

                Comment


                • #9
                  We the unwilling
                  led by the unknowing
                  have been doing the impossible
                  for the ungrateful
                  for so long
                  that we are now qualified
                  to do anything
                  with nothing...

                  or:

                  It's hard to soar with eagles when your surrounded by turkeys =)

                  Today was fun, I spent it hammering CPM 1V swedges into 1550 degree D2 blocks. (making forming blocks)

                  Ian/Circlip, Spot on.

                  T-M, Makin chips is a good thing, but make time to be a kid sometimes too, all too soon the world will demand you "grow up"
                  Last edited by Walter; 01-19-2009, 04:56 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi-jack or OT

                    Thanks Circlip (Ian).

                    Soi far as I can see, your perception is correct.

                    It sure didn't take long to either for some to ignore your OP or to disregard it - and to hi-jack or OT it either - did it?

                    I always try (well mostly) to refer back to the original post and poster for reference, clarification or guidance.

                    It peeves me a little that a look at the title of the thread all too often bears no relationship to the current discussion in the thread.

                    I will admit - and certainly cannot and will not deny - that I've done my share of it too - and have often given myself a bollocking about it in retrospect. In that regard or context, I live in a glass house that has very little glass left in it. I try to preserve what glass is left but the chances of it happening are pretty slim.

                    That OP and this thread of yours was and is very timely and I hope acts as a good "heads up" for us all.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Walter
                      <snip>
                      or:

                      It's hard to soar with eagles when your surrounded by turkeys =)
                      Or as Ricky Gervais said "Eagles may soar high, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Circlip
                        Hope Torker don't suffer from brain fade over the CNCisation of "The Gurl". I thought he made it abundantly clear that her machining prowess was being seriously handicapped by her thirst for a challenge and a way forward to help both her AND he was a cheap intro into a CNC set up using a basic CHEAP unit. Floods of good advise, but then into the realms of VMC's and mass production quantities. Great if your going to take over from H. Ford, but no good if you want the ability to make half a dozen three times a year.
                        Before I'm shouted down on this one, many years ago, when F1 cars had turbo's fitted, a company I worked for, supplied a bit essential for the retention of the turbo to the engine. The customer was a Japanese manufacturer renowned for its capability in engine prowess, so why did they come to a miniscule supplier in a West Yorkshire town for the bit. It wasn't cos they couldn't make the bit themselves, but they took 50 pieces a month over the racing season cos we had the ability to be able to change the design to suit their requirements quickly and cheaply. If big "H" had made them, on pressing the go button, there would have been a thousand on the floor within 1/4 of an hour. Horses for courses.
                        In defense of those of us who mentioned the VMC as an option her are some quotes from Russ,

                        "I'm actively looking for a machine...I have the money to buy "something"...
                        I even have some ideas for products the girl can manufacture."


                        When someone mentions they want to manufacture products that tells me they want to make more than a few parts. The mill Russ was looking at would more than likely end up costing more to get up and running in a reliable way than the cost of a used Fadal VMC that is still supported. And if he retro fitted the Tree he would have a machine of limited market value. If this venture did not work out and he had a Fadal he would have a machine that could easily be sold for probably what he paid for it. If he were to purchase the Tree and his products take off he would end up, like my friend with the Haas TM-1, scrambling to get a new machine to keep up with production. With a VMC he would have a machine he could grow into.

                        One final note, most think that VMC's are only good for production and that is just not true. I do one offs on mine all the time. I create a drawing or my customer sends me a drawing and then it is a simple opperation to create tool paths from the drawing and send the code to the machine, at that point I don't see where it is any faster to do the job on a manual machine as a manual machine still requires setting up tools and work positions just like a CNC and with a drawing and programs I have a paper trail for future reference.
                        Mark Hockett

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What exactly differntiates a VMC from any other CNC vertical mill?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            VMC has automatic tool change and is usually fully enclosed.
                            Mark Hockett

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's the ONLY difference?

                              So if you CNC ify a Seig X2, build a box, and add the ATC from LMS, it's a VMC?

                              That is weird\

                              I thought it referred to breaking traditional machine tool definitions, ect, But never seen a definition.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X