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  • #16
    I remember trying to make a perpetual energy machine when I was a child. I couldn't figure it out then, either.

    I was going to break my magnets in half so I could have some N magnets and some S magnets. Surely that was the solution! But I never did, lol.

    Aboard_Epsilon, people who believe in free-energy perpetual motion machines can't be educated. Not because they are stupid, but because they want to believe it. And frankly, it's their right to believe what they want. Does it make sense that something so simple could remain undiscovered for the last 300+ years? While lack of prior discovery is in no way a proof that it can't work, it should make one go "Hmmm." And the Believers don't go "hmmm." All critical thinking is turned off.

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    • #17
      the people who are against the idea ........don't even try to explain it clearly..Why it would not work....why is that...'cause they don't know, or are they far to clever to be able to explain in simple terms.....if they cant do that ...then people are just going to carry on building them.
      The reason it cannot work is easy to state. Magnets do not store energy and cannot be used as a source of energy since they don't store it.

      In order to understand why that is so you must be able to understand Maxwell's equations.

      These are they.

      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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      • #18
        I rather think you could convince an open-minded person easier than using those equations. Those equations may show you by how much it fails, but it is far easier - and sufficient - to show that it fails.

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        • #19
          What I said is that to understand why it cannot work you need the math. Those equations predict not only how electromagnetics work but even the speed of light falls out of them directly.
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Evan
            In order to understand why that is so you must be able to understand Maxwell's equations.

            These are they.
            As Dirty Harry said: "A man's got to know his limititations." For me, these are they.
            Allan Ostling

            Phoenix, Arizona

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            • #21
              Actually, those equations are not even a complete synopsis of the reasons....... there is plenty more.

              The basic reason magnet motors cannot work is explainable in a much better way.

              magnets attract other magnets. This fact is the basis of almost any magnet motor.

              As far as a simplified energy balance is concerned, you might as well compare that to gravity..... things fall down, and you can make that action do work.

              So lets just USE the gravity analogy......... even though we agree it isn't a perfect one.

              let a heavy weight fall down (similar to two magnets coming together). You can make that fall pull some other weight UP.

              But once the heavy weight has fallen down, it is down. To do it all over again, you have to get it back UP again......

              You could say, put springs down there so it bounces. but that only means that you can't get all the energy out of the fall. Even if you let it fall freely and bounce back, it never bounces all the way.

              You could push it back up hill on a ramp, so you don't have to lift it. but you can't put back the energy you got. in fact, friction makes you lose a lot.

              Even if you balance two equal weights on a rope and pulley, so one goes down when the other goes up, you STILL have to push to make them move........

              magnet motors run into the same things.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Evan
                What I said is that to understand why it cannot work you need the math. Those equations predict not only how electromagnetics work but even the speed of light falls out of them directly.
                Those people, including me ..dont understand your equations Evan.
                so its a waste of time showing them.

                All you got to do ...which I'm thinking of doing ...cause i just happen to belong to an inventors club were there are a few people who are deluded ..and need a simple explanation

                Thing to do is make a of perspex tube with one magnet in the bottom .......and the another magnet being repulsed by it ...with a weight on it ...

                and then over Min's / hours ...see how long the magnet keeps it at a set distance ...and show after the experiment that the magnet is depleted .

                all the best.markj

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by aboard_epsilon
                  and then over Min's / hours ...see how long the magnet keeps it at a set distance ...and show after the experiment that the magnet is depleted .

                  all the best.markj
                  It won't be....

                  Any more than a shelf is 'depleted" after holding up a stack of books for 30 years.

                  basic physics.... no "work" is done (in our frame of reference) holding up the books..... i.e. no energy is used.
                  1601

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

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                  • #24
                    if you replaced those magnets with electro magnets in the perpex tubes ..could you say the same then?

                    all the best.markj

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                    • #25
                      It looks like Aboad_Epsilon really wants to believe, and that's his/her prerogative. The flaw in his magnet in a tube analogy is that it does not represent work. It represents repulsion.

                      As explained to me in grade school, if I lift a paper from the desk to the shelf I am doing work. If I lean against the wall, even if I push with all my might, I'm exerting force but doing no work.

                      Back to the neat video. What is not really apparent is that the video is a composite (there are variations in the light that give it away). It probably spins down fairly quick.

                      But the real interesting part is that the energy that spins the wheel is input by the very hefty bars at the top of the outside parts as they are used to push the outer ring into place. It's the movement of the rings that impart the energy.

                      So what you have is a heavy flywheel with no drag that is kicked off by an external magnet that is introduced at an angle to produce the initial repulsion. Pretty slick if you ask me.

                      Like most of the guys here, I "invented" a magnetic motor, a car that ran on self generated hydrogen and many other perpetual motion systems before I was 15.

                      Dan
                      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                      Location: SF East Bay.

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                      • #26
                        To understand magnets it helps to look at them as push/pull springs --- to try and milk any usable power out of a spring is futile as the spring has to be rewound after the fact and had to be wound before the fact BUT -- there is one clause in magnetism that is interesting to ponder and in fact I tripped up Evan with it along time ago -- I stated -- "Give me a material that shields magnetism - yet is neither attracted or repelled by it and i will have an operating unit within a day that sits on a desk and runs till it wears out its bearings decades later" -- Evans answer was Mumetal in which i quickly corrected him as he did not know it was attracted to the magnets themselves -
                        The fact is is we dont really have a good grasp on just what magnetism really is -- to say there isnt a material in the entire universe that can shield it without itself getting involved is not only arrogant its ignorant...

                        If there was it means that we could indeed have a push spring or pull spring or both that gets engaged and disengaged without paying any price whatsoever and repeats ------- all the hillbilly equation charts in the world cant dispute this -- they mean nothing -- because they not only approach the problem incorrectly -- the idiots skip over entire elements that havent even been discovered yet

                        Glad I can help put things into perspective

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by G.A. Ewen

                          And another that is just hilarious ,,,, BUT A STRONG WARNING,,,, COARSE LANGUAGE !!!
                          This guy has been partying with Michael Phelps.

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                          • #28
                            I'd like to add, that, to this day, I've not done any experimentation with magnets ..
                            Before I do anything ..I always look at all the negatives ..before the positives ..way too many negs coming back on this one ..

                            and looking at the you tube vids ...I thought ignorantly that the plastic was insulating the magnets and directing the force...I did not know that:- all materials known to man are incapable of insulting magnets THANKS AK..........that puts a whole new meaning on it ......and the way I think about it in the future .

                            all the best.markj

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by J Tiers
                              As far as a simplified energy balance is concerned, you might as well compare that to gravity..... things fall down, and you can make that action do work.

                              So lets just USE the gravity analogy......... even though we agree it isn't a perfect one.
                              It's easier yet. Nobody has yet invented a perpetual pendulum that is energized entirely by gravity. They all finally stop.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by aboard_epsilon
                                I'd like to add, that, to this day, I've not done any experimentation with magnets ..
                                Before I do anything ..I always look at all the negatives ..before the positives ..way too many negs coming back on this one ..

                                and looking at the you tube vids ...I thought ignorantly that the plastic was insulating the magnets and directing the force...I did not know that:- all materials known to man are incapable of insulting magnets THANKS AK..........that puts a whole new meaning on it ......and the way I think about it in the future .

                                all the best.markj
                                Mu-metal is a pretty decent magnetic shielding material. It is used by disk drives to keep their very powerful magnets from destroying the data on the disks.

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal

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