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  • OT...Power outage

    Just in case anyone's interested, that idiot Bush walked around in his mouth again. It was most definitely NOT caused by a lightning strike in Niagara Falls. I live near there and the weather was beautiful all day long. Not a cloud in the sky, certainly none that could produce lightning. In fact, I was on the I-190 right near the Robert Moses hydro plant when the juice went off and I sure as hell didn't see a mysterious bolt of lightning from out of the blue hit the plant. Anyone believing that bulls**t is as dumb as that Texas longhorn. He really needs to check his facts before he opens his big ignorant mouth and blames all of NY city's problems on Niagara Falls. Who needs NYC anyway?
    Whew, ok. All better now, rant over. Thanks for listening.

  • #2
    Story now on news is that it spread in from a failure in Canada. Or an overloaded tie-line, or both.

    They are all interlinked, read up on the one in the 70s (?) and you will see how it starts. And how hard it is to recover from...

    Until they have power up, they won't be able to start up the power plants....to get the power to start, they need power plants up and running.........which can't be started without power...........

    Somewhere somone must have an I.C. based power plant that they can start............just to get the steam and nuc plants going.

    Apparently it even takes power to start a hydro plant......go figure.

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    • #3
      bdarin, before you start ranting, you should take some time and learn some facts. Canada blamed the power failure on a lightning strike at a power plant in the Niagara region and then said there was a fire a nuclear plant in PA. All Bush was doing was saying those were not the cause of the problem.

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      • #4
        So we have a power outage, a lot of the world doesn't have power like the states do. Enjoy it while you can, it may go again in a few years.

        Jerry

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        • #5
          The outage probibly started when someone some where plugged in one more fan or toaster or something
          Oso,ya man,an i.c.driven generator,if you could trace all those thousands of miles of wire back to the source-it would probibly be some old man somewhere with a 4000w Briggs generator that starts it all
          p.s.don't want to piss anybody off,but I had power all day,ALL OF THIS STINKING HOT DAY

          [This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 08-15-2003).]
          I just need one more tool,just one!

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          • #6
            What power outage? We had power just fine here in British Columbia. We produce twice as much as we need and sell the excess for obscene profits to the poor suckers in California. It's all made with falling water, too. Incidentally, the Canadian Minister of Defense claims it was a nuke plant in PA that caused it. It seems really strange that the Minister of Defense is even talking about this.

            BTW, OSO, in the first big blackout in NYC the Mt. Sinai Hospital realized they couldn't start their big diesel backup generators because the starter motors ran on 220v. Just how f**kin stupid is that?
            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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            • #7
              Our Grid is obviously vulnerable to the same cascading failure mode that it was in the 70's. I only see the grid serving the marketeer’s of energy like the Enron folks and others in Bush's camp. These are the worthless goddamn leaches, which will prevent the public from having cheap energy resources. Any local group can install a hydro or thermoelectric or wind powered source for their needs and they will enjoy cheap power. Once on the grid they are subject to the market manipulation Bush’s friends put California through last year.
              It seems to me that the load balancing that a grid is supposed to achieve can only be fully realized, if the sharing partners are spread the farthest apart. If a load varies due to the heat or cooling requirements of an area, then it would help to balance the load if the sharing partners load were nearly the opposite of the other. This leads to the need for some intercontinental power grids. I’m just saying…

              I would prefer to generate my own and not be vulnerable to the greedy bastards like the Bush, Enron, Arthur Anderson, and Cheney et al.
              I have been anticipating the "fuel-cell" technology but I think the "powers that be" may have intercepted the technology. I would love to live near a river that I could tap a flow off of. I would be like a flow of gold and I could be happy and powered forever more. There are other ways to “get off the gridâ€‌ as a friend has said to me, and one day I hope to do so.

              Spence

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              • #8
                Lets all move to one of the provinices that has oil and no PST, they don't have the problems the rest of us have.

                I think it was in the Pogo cartoon strip a few years ago. "We have met the enemy and they is us."

                Jerry

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                • #9
                  Jerry,

                  You must be getting as old as I am. Walt Kelly wrote in Pogo "We have met the enemy and he is us." in 1970. Seems like just a few years...
                  Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                  • #10
                    Evan,
                    I was a member of the U.S. Army at that time. That line rang true at that time, as it does today.
                    As that I have changed and the world around me has changed, I moved north were the people are kinder and life is a little more polite.

                    jerry

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                    • #11
                      Doh!

                      [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 08-15-2003).]

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                      • #12
                        What happens is when they improperly align the grid, the generators suck instead of push.

                        They have this lil guage that goes around and around, when it synchronizes they throw it in. (really I have saw it in a hydro plant) all the console is about 40 feet long, guages on all the walls. Seems like more than one person can handle. And they have automated a lot of the power plants to remote start, Now how does a operator feel the vibration from a hundred miles away. Bring back the real TVA power plant operators. You can't run it all from downtown.

                        Really I don't know how it all stays together anyways, everytime I opened up something the insulation was laying in the bottom of the box falling off the wiring. Old damn asbestos wiring, in old asbestos cable trays in moldy old plants.

                        And then, they try to do multi-tasking training, like they can teach a janitor to operate switches in a switch yard without killing hisself or someone else.

                        Really interesting how a hydro plant works, it gets exciter power off the grid to run the generator, the hydraulic govenors control the wicket gates that throttle the water flowing across the turbine wheel. There is this large hydraulic cylinder about ten feet long that throttles them. Each has a shear pin it in for sensing logs with a air monitor, I stepped on one and broke the line going through the pin, the 3 pounds of air flowed out tripping a pressure switch and scramming the unit. When a turbine slams the gates shut, a air breaker kicks in letting air into the turbine to stop it from collapsing the concrete damn walls with it's tons of inertia. That is what makes all the bubbles in the discharge when a unit goes down. But being in the wheel-pit the valve screams as it sucks air hurting your ears a lot. Think about it, making power pulses with a flowing fluid of different levels in the dam to synchronize with existing power waveforms on the lines.

                        I have crawled around inside the turbines, crawled around inside the generators, Huhng modern lighting all over the plants, worked on the liquid cooled conductors, worked on the Power transformers for phase loss and worked in the switchyards where you pull arcs to your hands everytime you touch something.
                        Funny thing is they use real horse manure to seal the seals on the turbine shaft. Not just any manure either, real arabian stallion manure.

                        TVA has been good to me, I'd run through fire to save one of thier plants.

                        I am proud TVA is here, thou they have taken a wrong turn here and there. They are the reason we have power in the south, and the rest of the nation just followed mostly. The rest of the world just followed the USA I think.

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                        • #13
                          We have 4 big plants very near here (Natural gas and coal fired). The only power outages we get are when someone takes a power pole out.

                          ...and we use hamster wheels to jump start them

                          Spence

                          Ballard Power Systems - now owned by Mercedes Benz/Chrysler and called Excelsis Fuel Cell Systems (or something like that - they seem to change names often) have a portable system you can buy right now. The small ones are under $100,000(US) and can run a number of homes. Don't know how expensive maintenance would be but they are ideal for remote locations because of extreme reliability.

                          [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 08-15-2003).]

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                          • #14
                            Jerry,

                            We have a few things in common. I was in the US army as well. Volunteered in 68, was in artillery, headquarters battery, (Nike Hercules base) at Fort Baker across the Golden Gate bridge looking after the general's helicopter. Nuke command so had a line officer in charge. He had a helicopter which he never used but it had to be inspected every day to make sure there was air in the tires. Got my discharge in 70 and headed north on my way to Denmark to visit relatives.

                            Spent a summer in High Level, Alberta then got out of town when it snowed a foot on Sept 1st. Met a beautiful girl in Edmonton that year and am still married to her. Didn't make it to Europe until 95.
                            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                            • #15
                              Thrud,
                              I thought you used dog wheels to start them. When I see those 10Kv generators with out engines go on sale, I always wonder if I should buy one or two and then look for a car engine. But I never do.
                              May be this fall I will start that project. Anyone have plans for converting a car engine to LP gas?

                              Jerry

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