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What to pay for carbide inserts when it comes out of your pocket?

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  • What to pay for carbide inserts when it comes out of your pocket?

    I just got another flyer from MSC in my email. Now they are saying 45% of Kennametal and 35% off the others. They list the normal prices as 15$ - 25$ ! Do you guys really pay that much for one insert or are the prices just inflated.

    Here's what the say
    Includes Grades KC730, KC810, KC850, KC935, KC950, KU10T, KU30T, K68, K313


    Kennametal Big Book Index
    Kennametal Turning Inserts
    Enter KMT45W in the promotional code box in the Shopping Cart when ordering online or mention the code when ordering via phone to receive the discount. Promotional price will be reflected in the Shopping Cart.
    I'd like to get into carbides but the price is prohibitive for home shop use unless you guys know something I don't?
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    Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

    It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

  • #2
    YOD

    try hemlytool.com

    they deal in New old stock (surplus).

    Take a nice ride down I-90, past Pa. about 5 exits
    in ohio (madison) go south maybe 10 miles to route 6.

    Is a nice ride, but not open on saturday.

    But really, call them, they ship all the time, and maybe
    one of their trucks is heading your way.

    Comment


    • #3
      That might be worth checking out in person.

      Question is how good is their people? Do they know carbide or are they just a pass-through for used tooling?

      What I'm getting at is how likely are they to be able to answer questions as opposed to just "sell" something?
      This product has been determined by the state of California to cause permanent irreversible death. This statement may or may not be recognized as valid by all states.
      Heirs of an old war/that's what we've become Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb
      Plastic Operators Dot Com

      Comment


      • #4
        Those prices sound rather high to me, but I don't know what the norm is in the USA as opposed to the UK.

        I tend to buy most of my inserts from e-bay, as I know exactly what I want to suit my toolholders, and I usually end up paying anywhere around £12-£20 for a box of 10 new inserts.
        However, I had to order some Kennematal SCMT inserts from a dealer the other day, and these were on special offer at £2.83 each, down about £1 from the usual price, so I bought a box of 10. I got them from Cromwell Tools in the UK, who are often quite a bit cheaper than the MSC/J&L site over here.

        I also find that if I ask for a discount when I phone to order from MSC/J&L, than I can usually get one quite easily.

        Peter

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Peter Neill
          I got them from Cromwell Tools in the UK, who are often quite a bit cheaper than the MSC/J&L site over here.

          Peter
          ???????????????? I find Cromwell to be total rip off merchants.
          They even charge VAT on books which isn't allowed here.
          .

          Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



          Comment


          • #6
            I'm in the same boat.I just purchased a carbide insert tool set.I have a limited tool budget right now,so opted for an import set of holders.I hated to do it with todays economy,but it was the only way I could afford inserts right now. I purchased from Western Tool & Supply,they had a complete selection of inserts,and holders.The sales person started with the upper end,and then showed me the less expensive models as well.The set I picked up was about $75.00,and extra inserts were about $6,$8.I will more than likely replace with a better quality set as these make me some money,but right now thats what I had to do.
            There contact info is
            Western Tool
            925-443-8665
            800-878-5371
            I spoke with Donna,and she was very helpful,walked me through all the options over the phone,while I was online and could see everything she was talking about.I have no afiliation with the company,just a good experience.
            I'm a real fast learner,it just takes me awhile to pick things up.

            Comment


            • #7
              try here: http://carbidedepot.com/

              I usually pay between $3 & $8 depending on chipbreaker, grade, & manufacture.
              -Dan S.
              dans-hobbies.com

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm in the same postion. Yes.. they can be expensive.. especially if they only have 2 tips to reuse. Some negative rake inserts have 6 cutting tips so it makes the price much more reasonable, but negative rake and home-shop often don't go well togther. When dealing with MSC, always check Enco's prices. MSC owns Enco... Enco will have a less selection, but often much better prices. Buying by the box is cheaper.

                One trick is to choose the tooling that has the lower cost inserts. I'm a home shop and don't need high end though-coolant CNC tooling, but I have some from garage sales. When I run out of the current insert supply, they will likely sit on the shelf. For most of my turning I use positve rake triangular TCCM 321 inserts - about as cheap as they get at $2-$5 (some list as high as $8) depending on the deal and the quality/grade. The ADPK inserts I use on my face mill cost me $12-18, and there's 5 on the tool. I crashed the tool last week and took out three of them My boring bars (too many) use a variety if inserts, but I generally buy the small 2.5 triangular.

                If you know the insert numbers, and just want small quantity, dig around on ebay. There's a lot listed and you can get great deals. I have boxes of many types of inserts - maybe 25lb of them - and most I don't use -just acquired them as part of various lots. I also have a lot of tooling I don't use as I don't have the correct inserts, but one day...


                And... although they are supposed to be throw-way... a quick trip to the CBN wheel can touch up a dulling lathe tool insert in seconds Sure, any coating will be gone, but it's gone anyhow when you're ready to touch up.


                BTW... if you buy the 5 piece TT lathe set, you have a choice of "Import" (China/India) or USA. If you order on the web, Enco has the 1/2 inch USA for $59 (only shows that price if you put it in the cart), the Import for $29. The BIG difference is the screws. The import screws SUCK - made of chewing gum... Even though Enco says you can't use the USA screws on the Import, for the sets that I have they are interchangable - the USA screws are hardened, last, and are cheaper to replace. yes, screws are expensive -over $3 for the import, $2.10- for the USA. Sure wish they'd just use torx and be done with it!
                Last edited by lakeside53; 03-09-2009, 01:01 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by John Stevenson
                  ???????????????? I find Cromwell to be total rip off merchants.
                  They even charge VAT on books which isn't allowed here.
                  Sometimes you just gotta shop around

                  In this case, J&L wanted £5.92 for the SCMTs (09T304LF), so Cromwell were half the price.
                  Both were Kennemetal KC850 grade.

                  VAT on books is a bit naughty though, perhaps you should report them so they get lumbered with a nasty VAT inspection.

                  Peter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shop Wisely

                    I have a 15 x 40 inch cinncinatti lathe and a Bridgeport Mill. I use octagon type flycutters on the mill they work awesome for everything also have `6 edges. Trigon lathe tools are my favorite and they have 6 useable edges barring snapoping off situations. If you get nice tooling with a few xtra edge inserts it will save you money overall. Just my insert tip??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "Do they know carbide or are they just a pass-through for used tooling? "

                      Uh liger zero, NEW old stock, not used.

                      They know their carbide, they are professional, but know what
                      you want when you call. The place is a "sea of vidmars" filled
                      with inserts.

                      You can search their inventory on the website, but it doesn't
                      have everything.

                      They also have new in a couple of different manufacturers.

                      They have ordered replacement screws for my insert's for a special
                      they didn't have.
                      Last edited by digger_doug; 03-09-2009, 01:08 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That answers my question Digger Doug. I delt with a wee shop in Lyons NY that merely collected old tooling, good luck getting any info on it.

                        He was getting tooling and stuff from the big Parker plant before they scaled back, he went under recently or at least stopped answering his phones. Lots of neat HSS bits ground into interesting shapes, carbide holders, inserts and other assorted things I don't know what they were, neither did he.

                        That's why I was asking.
                        This product has been determined by the state of California to cause permanent irreversible death. This statement may or may not be recognized as valid by all states.
                        Heirs of an old war/that's what we've become Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb
                        Plastic Operators Dot Com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Liger Zero
                          I don't know what they were, neither did he.
                          Maybe that's why he went under....
                          -Dan S.
                          dans-hobbies.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dan s
                            Maybe that's why he went under....
                            That and his prices. Once I learned I could get new stuff for that price guess what?
                            This product has been determined by the state of California to cause permanent irreversible death. This statement may or may not be recognized as valid by all states.
                            Heirs of an old war/that's what we've become Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb
                            Plastic Operators Dot Com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The price of an insert seems inversely proportional to it's age and "sexiness".

                              So a TPG is common as dirt, and costs as much (about $1 - $2). A CCMT or CNMG is more modern, and costs, say $4 - $6 retail, depending on the brand, type of carbide, and the coating. The CCGT aluminum inserts that you non-HSS sharpening guys like so much are $10 - $15 each retail.

                              The helical (curved) inserts like the APKT's and XOMX's are crazy expensive -- $15 - $25 each retail.

                              I mentioned before that I'm finding that APKT's do cut better (with less force and chatter) than the SEHT/SEHW's or the Sandvik RA-245 shear mills, but they're so expensive that there's a high pucker factor when I load a facemill with 6 inserts ($90 worth of inserts!).

                              Lately, though, I've found an Ebay seller in England, of all places, who is selling Sandvik APKT's for about $3 each, which is a steal.

                              By the way, I agree with Bob about MSC/J&L/Enco on inserts -- they're ridiculously expensive, even with the 45% off. Then again, MSC is the exclusive dealer of Kennametal (that's why they bought J&L, because it was the Kennametal retail outlet), so they can charge anything they want...
                              Last edited by lazlo; 03-09-2009, 02:28 PM.
                              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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