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Mighty yet tiny IC engine !

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  • Mighty yet tiny IC engine !

    Here is another one that claims big things! http://angellabsllc.com/index.html Its corrected
    Last edited by PTSideshow; 03-14-2009, 10:23 PM.
    Glen
    Been there, probably broke it, doing that!
    I am not a lawyer, and never played one on TV!
    All the usual and standard disclaimers apply. Do not try this at home, use only as directed, No warranties express or implied, for the intended use or the suggested uses, Wear safety glasses, closed course, professionals only

  • #2
    The link you posted just goes to the "post a new thread" part of this bulletin board.

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    • #3
      Neat little engine
      NRA member

      Gun control is using both hands

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      • #4
        He is claiming up to 40 horsepower per pound. That is totally ridiculous. If the engine is 30% efficient, and that is being very generous, then each pound of engine when running at full power must somehow shed at least 20 kilowatts of waste heat on a continuous basis. That's impossible for anything short of a rocket engine that runs on a liquid fuel/oxidizer mixture and is cryogenically cooled.

        The space shuttle main engines are the most powerful engines per pound ever built at around 100 hp per pound. However, they use pure liquid oxygen while the engine presented here must burn atmospheric air. If the shuttle burned liquid air the power output would drop by at least a factor of 5 to perhaps 20 hp per pound or even lower.

        The web site is extremely slim on real facts about the engine. From the one picture I could find it appears to be a free piston design. If it generates even a fraction of the power output claimed for it then it will be so loud that it will be dangerous to approach within a hundred feet of it when running at power. That is the singular most important drawback of nearly all free piston engine designs that have a high power density. They make pure jet engines sound nearly silent.
        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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        • #5
          Been lots of "revolutionary" engine designs over the years but it seems they don't stay around very long, not saying this one won't but...... Unless I missed something I did not see where he has an actual working model, but his offer for investors was easy to find.

          Interesting idea anyway!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Evan
            He is claiming up to 40 horsepower per pound. That is totally ridiculous. If the engine is 30% efficient, and that is being very generous, then each pound of engine when running at full power must somehow shed at least 20 kilowatts of waste heat on a continuous basis.
            It's probably for short trips: I know people with Harleys like that. After 3 bar stops they're ready to park it for the day.

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            • #7
              I was totally unable to confirm how it works from the pictures........

              I recall hearing about a circular cylinder unit that worked on some sort of stepping cam setup to turn a shaft by increments. It almost looked like there were pistons traveling a donut-shaped bore in that picture. Can that be right?

              Edit...... never mind, I found the tiny link to videos. it IS that one.

              The animation "makes sense", but I have no clue what the air motoring videao was all about, all I saw was fog and people moving around in front of a stationary chunk of something...... if the %$#@ thing works, give it some gas!

              Power density is an issue....... Evan has a good point. Of course, the obvious retort is that more efficiency means less heat to reject, which would be true, if the other part were also true, about efficiency...... Naturally the Carnot limit has "something to say" about the best possible efficiency, and I don't see him getting an abnormally high temperature in that..

              A surprisingly large amount of heat can be removed by liquid cooling, but that only means that there is still a large radiator despite the small engine........ And it also requires considerable space for cooling passages....
              Last edited by J Tiers; 03-15-2009, 12:22 AM.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

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              • #8
                "Engine featured on American Antigravity Magazine."

                You can't get a better endorsement than that. He will probably be getting a large endowment from the stimulus program to create some of those green collar jobs so desperately needed.
                Jim H.

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                • #9
                  Something like this is akin to those "onboard" hydrogen generators that purport to convert water for fuel in that if it works so well why is it so hard to sell? If someone could build an engine that efficient with a power to weight ratio like that then big industry, the military, even some government agencies would surround him like vultures! He would not be hawking that thing on the internet looking for suc..., err, I mean investors and he would be enormously wealthy just for the design rights. I get a kick out of those guys selling those hydrogen gizzmos that claim to be extracting energy from water, if it worked like they claim they would have something that would revolutionize the industrial world but they are going to sell it on the internet to increase gas mileage on cars? Yeah right!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Evan
                    The web site is extremely slim on real facts about the engine. From the one picture I could find it appears to be a free piston design.
                    I don't think it is a free-piston design. In fact, it is mentioned in the following Wiki article (beat ya, Tiffie!) in the paragraph on "other examples:"

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing-piston_engine

                    I admire your systems approach to assessing this engine's viability. There could be a job for you at Orbital Sciences, anytime you want to move to Phoenix.
                    Last edited by aostling; 03-15-2009, 01:17 AM.
                    Allan Ostling

                    Phoenix, Arizona

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                    • #11
                      Snake Oil has no pistons.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JCHannum
                        "Engine featured on American Antigravity Magazine."

                        You can't get a better endorsement than that. He will probably be getting a large endowment from the stimulus program to create some of those green collar jobs so desperately needed.
                        Na... that would have been the previous administration... Obama's folks appear to be pragmatists rather than true believers. "Abstinence-only sex ed"! That's
                        like "Public transport only Driver's Ed".

                        - Bart
                        Bart Smaalders
                        http://smaalders.net/barts

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                        • #13
                          The very definition of "torsional vibration",if it does indeed work it won't do so for very long.Personally he's a fool for standing in a test cell with an experimental on test.
                          I just need one more tool,just one!

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                          • #14
                            A total joke and an outright lie, 40 times more power to weight ratio !!!
                            holy toledo - and take a look - it still has aluminum pistons - if the facts were true it would have an immediate meltdown, You can pump coolant at vast quantities and pressures though many a thing to keep them cool but pistons are extremely limited --- One of the tricks on high perf. engines is to run a high flow oil pump and point piston "pissers" at the bottom of the piston and use the oil as a coolant ---- OOOP's these geniuses are claiming 40 times the power to weight and the piston is double sided so they don't get to cool it this way AND its not a ceramic piston - who do they think their dealing with?

                            The other observation, The mechanical design is a piece of crap, Those engines do run but they sound like there about to self destruct at any moment --- Good luck trying to improve on taking a piston in a bore and attaching it to an eccentric offset ------ Its near perfect in design - As we know pistons have to be stopped and restarted - this also has to re-occur at some other point so it can repeat and on and on --- with the typical eccentric (crank driven) design this means that at 0 degree's and 180 the piston speed is of course 0 feet per second yet at 90 and 270 degree's the piston is at its maximum feet per second --------- this means that all the degree's inbetween are either GRADUALLY building up speed in one direction or GRADUALLY slowing it down (EVERY DEGREE) -- what this equates to is not only the best that can be achieved in keeping destructive forces at bay -- its also as near perfect an energy return system that one can achieve for a reciprocating piston engine and in fact the only real losses are frictional and elastomeric as the piston gives back exactly what it took to accelerate, pistons you see turn into a type of flywheel when acting upon the eccentric (crank) - if their twice as hard to get moving they will be exactly twice as hard to stop (minus frictional and elastomeric losses). Its not to say that there isnt an internal struggle going on -- its huge - but its very balanced.

                            How good is this simple system? I said it before - If you think you have a hot milling machine because the spindle can rap out at 10,000 RPM's try almost doubling that and hanging pistons and rods off the end of the spindle with eccentrics, remember the Ferrari spinning donuts at the opening ceremony in torino Italy? just going by the sound im guessing 16,000 to 18,000 rpm's...

                            Here's the U-tube, keep watching the video otherwise you will think somebodys poking a stick at a massive bumblebee...
                            www.youtube.com/watch?v=S33ujadDbWw

                            Only the Italians would do this at an opening ceremony ;>}
                            Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 03-15-2009, 01:05 PM.

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                            • #15
                              The 40 Hp per pound claim is based upon dubious scaling calculation of "equivilent" displacement, since it has 8 (?) compression cylinders and in two crankshaft revolutions, it fires 32 times. So he is assuming that it will be 8 times more powerful then a four cylinder motor. And since his (aluminum) model only weighs 150#..... before it slags....

                              I like the claim of utter simplicity, and then it states "And it is not a rotary engine". Too bad, he would have been better off picking up when Mazda left off.... oh wait, that is still covered under patent.... unlike the "Lutz" engine (thanks Tiffie... er...Aostling...) I suspect that thermal problems are not the only achillis heal... the pistons as they rotate must be connected to the crankshaft somehow, and that means a very large seal, which will probably not last long.

                              Wait, from the ABOUT ANGEL LABS:
                              Angel Labs is composed of inventors, scientists, Engineers, business managers, computer technicians, programmers, machinists, Engine experts, patent attorneys, business consultants etc.

                              Hmm, Raphael must have a big family...

                              Or maybe not. From the FAQ:

                              How many employees are there? Staffing has ranged from one to ten.
                              Last edited by tmarks11; 03-15-2009, 12:42 PM.

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