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Need your help! Moving a machine ...

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  • Need your help! Moving a machine ...

    Hey Guys -

    I could use some tips here. I'm determined to get my paws on this shaper:

    The seller estimates its weight to be 2 tons but he says it's about 9' long and 5' high. I'm guessing it's on the high side of 2 tons. He has no way to load it and I'll be lucky to get my hands on one of those car-carrier trailers.

    I'm thinking about using some handyman jacks or just a glorified pry bar to get it up on some skids and then trying to winch it onto the trailer, but I'd love to hear a better way to do it. I'm affraid there is alot that could go wrong with that plan, given the fact that my equipment is a tad undersized for this job. I've also got an engine hoist, but I'm not sure it's up to the job. If neccessary, I suppose I could dissassemble it into large pieces and then use the hoist.

    Any ideas/tips/thoughts are welcome! I reckon I'll manage, but I'd like to do it as quickly as possible and with as little damage to the machine as possible

  • #2
    If it's as big and as relatively new as it looks, 2 tons is WAY light. Maybe 5 tons is more like it. Could you get the manufacturer and size?


    • #3
      I'd say about 6500 to 6800 as far as weight. I hope you have at least 6" of reinforced concrete to set it on. And good luck moving it should remove a ton of chips for you. Hire a large roll back and have them deliver it.
      Wow... where did the time go. I could of swore I was only out there for an hour.


      • #4
        It's a John Bertram and Sons shaper. Couldn't get a size beyond the physical dimensions. This may be a job for my brother-in-law... I was hoping to get it myself and keep it in the garage for a couple of weeks while I worked on it, but maybe thats out of the question.


        • #5
          that's probably in the 24" range. i'd say 5000-6000 pounds. i'm not sure why you'd need a 6" reinforced concrete floor. my 20" G&E is a good 5000 pounds and it's in my garage. as far as i know it is just a normal garage floor.

          as for moving, that is easy. a 4' Johnson bar, some pieces of 1x4s, some pieces of 2x4s, five or six 4' lengths of 1" black pipe, a come-along, and a 5-ton drop-deck trailer. if you can get those supplies, you can move it yourself. i brought my G&E shaper home and moved it all around my garage by myself with those supplies.

          here's what you do. lift a corner up and stick a piece of 1x4 under it. do this to all four corners. then put a 1x4 under the Johnson bar and lift a corner up and now stick a piece of 2x4 under it. do this to all four corners.

          now slide a few pieces of the 1" black pipe under the shaper. 1" black pipe is 1.25" in diameter, so it just fits with the shaper on 2x4s. now lift each corner up again and remove the 2x4 pieces.

          now you can roll that baby wherever you want. use the come-along to pull it onto the drop-deck trailer. again. lift each corner and put a piece of 2x4 under it. now securely strap the shaper down and head home.

          do the reverse to unload it. if you have to move it on any types of inclines, make sure you have the shaper secured at each step with a nylon strap or two so the most it can move is a few inches. that way it won't start rolling away from you (or into you).

          watch your toes and fingers and go slow. a nice sunny day helps, and of course a friend to act as spotter never hurts. in my case though, i have moved all of my machines myself. you can never go too slow or think about the next step too long.

          andy b.
          The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining


          • #6
            9ft long is a bit longer than my 20" G&E so I am going to guess its a bit heavier than two tons. My 20" went just north of that figure and that girl is a good bit longer. Weight seems to go up fast as they get bigger to figure somewhere north of 3 tons. Plan to safely move 10,000 and you should have some safety factor.
            James Kilroy


            • #7
              Fastrack, you must have the biggest garage in the state, way to go. do it safely and take pics....sorry that didn't add any value but i just had give thumbs up to anyone who's determined to have a 9' long shaper. I'm thinking of going for a big brother for the atlas so am interested to see how you do it


              • #8
                I'll go in with Tinkerer,6,000+.

                Shapers are easy,lock the knee gibs down tight,slip a bottle jack under the knee and jack up the front,slip a length of 1-1/2 or 2" pipe under it and go to the back.This time lift the back by using the bottle jack along with a length of 4x4 under the ram.Jack it just high enough to slip pipe under the back and middle.Once it's on pipe she's all yours.

                Bring a friend or two along with 10 or 12 pieces of pipe roll it out the door Egyptian style.Turning is done by placing the next pipes in line on a gradual angle.
                I just need one more tool,just one!


                • #9
                  Thanks for the tips and encouragement! I think it'll be manageable. I'll bring along some scraps of wood, some 1" pipe, come-alongs, jack, etc. That's the big thing - knowing what to bring! Working at home, it's no big deal since everything is right there and there is no time rush. Its working on the other end that is a little nerve wracking. When I picked up my lathes, I had my brother-in-law and the seller there to help. The seller (Ions82 on the PM site) had alot of expierence moving machinery and was a huge help. Plus, my brother-in-law with a semi-truck moved things along quickly, too!

                  This time the seller has no machinery rigging expierence and I'll probably be "going it alone" or with a friend. In either case, I'll have to do all the thinking


                  • #10
                    Kilroy didn't mention it, but one of his machinery moving adventures
                    with pipe resulted in the pipe 'flattening' out under the machine.
                    Might be worth looking for some 1" solid to have around just in case.
                    Ditto, the wood you use should be relatively non crushable. White
                    pine and poplar are a no go. Yellow pine maybe, oak or hickory better.


                    • #11
                      A 9' long x 5' high shaper may push over 10,000 lb. I am in my 'puter room that is 12'x12' and a 9' shaper would take up one wall with no where for the ram to travel.

                      That is one giant shaper. Maybe they meant it takes 9' of room for the shaper to operate in.
                      It's only ink and paper


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Carld
                        That is one giant shaper. Maybe they meant it takes 9' of room for the shaper to operate in.
                        that's what i'm thinking as well. i figure the seller doesn't really know how to measure it, as shapers are odd beasts. on mine, there is an oil shield that sticks out the back underneath the ram. if you include this in the length, mine is almost 8' long. you can just see it in this photo:

                        i'm guessing the one Fasttrack is going to look at has this, or the seller is measuring it with the ram all the way back. it probably requires 9' of length to operate, but a 9' long shaper would truly be a monster.

                        one note, if yours has this oil shield, DO NOT LIFT IT BY THE SHIELD! it is only sheet metal and there is no way it will support the weight of the machine. i personally don't even like lifting shapers by the ram, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

                        andy b.
                        The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining


                        • #13
                          Fasttrack, you got a winch or crane to load your projects onto the table of that baby? It would be criminal to be using it just for making watch parts Good luck.
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                          • #14
                            Fasttrack, please take pictures of this machine and the move. Keep us posted on progress. I have never seen a Bertram shaper, but the Bertram lathe I am acquainted with is one large chunck!! JIM


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sch
                              Ditto, the wood you use should be relatively non crushable. White
                              pine and poplar are a no go. Yellow pine maybe, oak or hickory better.
                              When doing some machinery setup in Singapore the rigging company showed up with a box containing a few hundred 6" square pieces of plywood in various thicknesses rangingfrom 1/8" to probably 1/2" thick. Each thickness was painted a different color. For lifting a machine they would lift with a bar and slip a spacer under the foot. For lifting they shaper they might have 6 guys on the machine. Two with bars and 4 with shims. They would have a bar on each end and a 'shimmer' at each foot. Lift one end then the other and a shim under the two feet in the air. They would have had that machine 4" in the air in just a few minutes.

                              no neat sig line