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Any secret to re-spoking a bicycle rim?

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  • Any secret to re-spoking a bicycle rim?

    Bought an electric motor for my son's bike. It fits on the front wheel where the hub would normally go. The unit came attached to a rim but someone from a country not known for it's quality control must have slammed it down on a workbench when he was finished with it. It has a 10" flat spot on the face of the rim and yet the cardboard box nor the styrofoam it was packed in showed no sign of damage. It has an anoying whop, whop, whop when you ride it

    The rim that was on his bike to begin with is exactly the same except they screwed up and it's round! Will it be a nightmare to swap out the rims? I have studied it and can't figure out the logic of how it's done. Is there something I'm overlooking? Keep in mind, I have to remove all the spokes first before I can start to install them on the good rim because I have to remove the hub-motor. In other words, taking them off one and a time and installing on the other rim is not possible.

    I've come to the Chapel of Tech Savvy twice today and won't bother you with a third trip!

    This is the motor I"m talking about.

    Last edited by Your Old Dog; 03-21-2009, 01:02 PM.
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  • #2
    Hmm, that motor looks to offer good torque and a low rpm, would be perfect to mount directly to the spindle of a lathe for a smaller foot print.

    Comment


    • #3
      As I recall you're a professional photographer ...make sure you take a picture of it before you start! (maybe two or three)

      While "it ain't rocket science" it does look like you'd want to study the pattern for a long time and make some notes to yourself, i.e. have a firm plan of attack in mind before starting.

      I just did a google on "spoking a wheel", and got several hits that may help.
      http://www.bikewebsite.com/build.htm
      http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

      Comment


      • #4
        A cycle or motorcycle shop would probably do it very quickly and if you've seen them doing it at the factory it's EASY. If you really want to have a go, get a sheet of white paper, draw two circles one inside the other and start to add the spokes going the same way one side in one colour. then add the spokes going the other way on the first side in a different colour.

        When you've done one side, the other is exactly the same pattern but interlinked with the first side which you can see from the photo you've posted. The tricky part comes when you've re-strung the wheel, and that's tensioning the spokes to get the rim running true both axially and side ways.

        Good Luck.

        Regards Ian.
        You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Your Old Dog
          It has an anoying whop, whop, whop when you ride it




          Hey watch it buddy -----------

          Yod - you have a typical single cross spoke pattern --- but this does not ensure anything, How many holes in your other rim? even if identical and a single cross pattern I can tell you this, it still wouldnt be right -- the spokes holes in the rim are canted in the direction of the hubs mounting flange, your hub is not "a" typical, its extra large diameter needs a pre-fab rim that directs its spoke nipple to that angle of attack, This means that you could get it all the way changed over and the nipples are not in the proper angle of the rim, what this will inevitably do is create a stress on the spokes threads right at the rim as they are being pulled off kilter - they will soon fail --- I will state this -- maybe you should try to bring the existing rim around -- you would be surprised at what you can achieve and I will add that you have a great advantage in having your hub so large as any deviation to the side is much easier brought around due to your increased leverage ratio's of side pull -- --- there's basically "hop" and "wobble" hops the worst to deal with but you should be able to dial it in, wheel truing is cake, always loosen the side thats sucked in to close first and then tension up the other side - if its not enough then repeat.
          Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 03-21-2009, 01:43 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've respoked my old Schwinn beach cruiser several times as I modified it over time. When I lived in Southern California it was actually used at the beach but here in the Pacific Northwet we have hills to get over

            I added Sturmey-Archer drum brakes front and rear and also a 5-speed deraileur. Each mod required different length spokes and relacing. Once you get into the pattern it goes well. Not at all difficult and surely not rocket science. The bike frame works as a suitable alignment jig. Just take note of how many spokes to cross and go. Yours looks like a simple cross-one probably because of the hub diameter.

            I always spoke both sides of the hub first then lace one side of the rim then the next.

            Comment


            • #7
              Call your local bike shop and ask how much they will charge. It may not be worth your time to fiddle with it.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

              Comment


              • #8
                Ahhhm aahm --- I believe YOD is a fellow HMS'er -- what this equates to is he's incapable of calling his local bike shop to get any work done - or at least not until he's spit up a bunch of blood first...

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's actually a very easy process. this link explains it as well as any:
                  http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

                  Normally, I'll put all the spokes through the hub in the order the have to be, then put all the spokes that point in the same direction (both sides) in the right holes on the rim, install the nipples with just enough turns to hold them on. Then give the rim a slight turn to push them all the way out which gives enough room to get the other spokes in, then a slightly greater turn in the same direction which pushes the 'open' spokes out far enough to put the nipples on them. Some people start at one point and work their way around installing evey spoke as they come to it, but you normally have to start flexing the spokes to get them through the holes, my way they almost fall in place.

                  I always true them on the bike because some bikes need a little bit of offset that is easier to get right when it's on the bike it's intended for. If the front and rear rims have different center lines there will be a point during turns where the arc will either tighten up or widen out resulting in under/oversteer depending on which way you turn

                  Install the rim, lift the bike then align the rim, most people use a DI to do it, I prefer using a dry erase marker on each side of the rim (in a holder) because it leaves an easily seen mark so I know exactly which spokes need adjustment, and can step back and see if the marks have the same center as the rim so I don't get wheel hop.

                  I have no idea how many times I've done it for bikes and motorcycles, currently I have 6 bicycles, and 4 motorcycles, only one has the original spokes/rims it came with.
                  If you have two different length spokes, the short ones go on the side of the hub that sticks out further from the flange. On most rims the nipple bosses will have holes that point to the spoke they're for.

                  After the second or third rim it'll be automatic, and you'll wonder why people pay to have it done.

                  Ken.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    YOD, this is from my 'to do" tutorial list
                    He has a series of helpfull vids

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTb3x5VO69Y
                    Ken.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Any secret to re-spoking a bicycle rim?

                      Yes, there is a secret to lacing a spoked wheel. Actually, I'll assume you have installed all the spokes and nipples in their proper positions, but with no tension on them yet.

                      The secret has to do with getting the rim to run true, and it is this: the rim must always be straight and concentric with the axle, from the time you first begin to put tension on the the spokes, right through the end of the process. If you ever let the rim get away from you, i.e., let it get significantly out of center, or develop an axial wobble when it rotates, you will probably never get it under control again.

                      The following applies to bicycles wheel, but the principles are the same for any spoked wheel.

                      Build a simple wooden jig that enables you to rotate the wheel, with a wire run-out indicator. Bend the wire so it points at the edge of the rim. This enables you to see what you're doing. If you don't want to make a jig, the job can be done with the bike upside-down and the wheel mounted in the bike. You still have to rig up some kind of run-out indicator.

                      Begin by drawing up 4 pairs of spokes, one each at the 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock positions. Draw them up finger tight. Adjust the nipples until the rim runs true. The process is just like centering work in a 4-jaw chuck, except you have to worry about axial run-out as well as radial. When the rim runs true with the nipples finger-tight, draw up all eight nipples by the same, small amount, say 1/2 turn. Check that the rim is still true, and make small adjustments, if necessary.

                      Continue to raise the tension in the 8 spokes by turning the nipples equal amounts, checking for true as you go, until there is enough tension so that when you strike the spokes lightly, they make a musical tone. This tone is what enables you to get all the spokes evenly tensioned, which is necessary for the wheel to stay true in operation. (If you are tone-deaf, fuggheddabowdit!)

                      When you are happy with the first 8 spokes, start bringing up the rest of the spokes, always working with one pair of pairs at a time (i.e., two adjacent nipples on one side of the rim, then the opposite two nipples). Don't move on to a new pair of pairs until the rim is true, and the tensions even.

                      As you tension additional spokes, the tension in the previously tensioned spokes will drop. Make careful, even corrections to keep spoke tensions equal.

                      Keep tightening the spokes in small increments until you end up with properly and evenly tensioned spokes and a true rim.

                      Patience is required. If you rush the process, or deviate from your system, you will wind up starting over (don't ask me how I know). Always work with pairs of pairs, never make big changes, check constantly for trueness, and maintain even spoke tension by tapping and listening. Start right and don't let small mistakes grow into large ones, and you won't go far wrong.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kendall

                        Normally, I'll put all the spokes through the hub in the order the have to be, then put all the spokes that point in the same direction (both sides) in the right holes on the rim, .

                        See thats the problem, you may be able to point them in the same direction but like I stated earlier - this rim is design specific for this hub -- no ifs ands or butts ------ a typical rims nipple kant (angle) will fall way short of where they need to be for the outrageous radius that this hub has, what this will do is bend the spokes at the nipple end and right at the thread - they will fail very early and YOD's kid will do a massive head plant into the pavement - is that what your shooting for?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alsinaj
                          Yes, there is a secret to lacing a spoked wheel. .

                          Good post -- but the first "secret" is matching the appropriate rim with the appropriate hub, next up is spoke selection.

                          see above post.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not speaking as an expert here, but I have laced a few bicycle wheels and one motorcycle wheel. One thing that made it easier for me was making a jig to hold both the hub and the rim into the alignment I wanted before positioning any spokes. Obviously the rim must be concentric with the hub, plus it must be positioned side to side so it centers within the forks once mounted.

                            My jig was a piece of plywood with about a half dozen wooden wooden support pieces which were all cut the same- the inner part of these able to key into the hub, while the outer part was keyed to set the rim onto. Not being a partucularly patient fellow, this let me lace up the wheel with a pretty close alignment from the start- not much tweaking required to get it straight. I did NOT find it particularly easy to get all the spokes inserted correctly, but once they were I paid careful attention to not tighten any spokes until they all had their nuts on. The support jig made it easy to run all the play out of the spokes to the point where tensioning could begin, then it was more or less equal turns on all the nuts until proper 'singing' could be had from all the spokes. To have proper tensioning, plus a centered hub- with a comparatively low rise in blood pressure- ya ha.
                            I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Your Old Dog
                              Bought an electric motor for my son's bike. It fits on the front wheel where the hub would normally go. The unit came attached to a rim but someone from a country not known for it's quality control must have slammed it down on a workbench when he was finished with it. It has a 10" flat spot on the face of the rim and yet the cardboard box nor the styrofoam it was packed in showed no sign of damage. It has an anoying whop, whop, whop when you ride it
                              The rim that was on his bike to begin with is exactly the same except they screwed up and it's round! Will it be a nightmare to swap out the rims? I have studied it and can't figure out the logic of how it's done. Is there something I'm overlooking? Keep in mind, I have to remove all the spokes first before I can start to install them on the good rim because I have to remove the hub-motor. In other words, taking them off one and a time and installing on the other rim is not possible.
                              The building of a wheel is not that difficult (if I can do it anyone can) but it does take some instruction to accomplish the job.
                              Three things are involved here........
                              1) Centering the rim over the mass of the hub width.
                              2) Lateral alignment of the rim.
                              3) Concentric alignment of the rim.
                              You have the spokes already.
                              Buy an exact copy of the rim you have.
                              You will need to have a stand to mount the wheel in for aligning the rim. You can build this yourself.



                              Here is one of the many motorcycle wheels I have built. I learned this from building bicycle wheels first.
                              See the groups of spokes depicted with the tape? This wheel has 40 spokes. There are 4 spokes to a group which means the wheel has a total of 10 groups.
                              When you align a wheel, you do it by working these groups together. 2 spokes on the right and 2 spokes on the left in each group. I love wheel building!
                              To tell the truth though, unless you want to teach yourself to do it, a cheaper way is to run the wheel to a bicycle shop and let them build the wheel. Cost? About $15............ pg

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