Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Don't Go 'round Tonight/It's Bound To Take Your Life/Theres A Bad Idea On The Rise...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    andy b.........

    That's just about what I'd expect.

    Ultrasonics = small motions

    Mixing = large motions

    ultrasonics <> mixing
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    Comment


    • #32
      A 750 Watt ultrasonic homogenizer like a medium sized Sonics and Materials unit applied directly to the liquid via the tuned titanium probe would undoubtedly make short work of it. You can't accomplish much with ultrasonics unless you can induce cavitation in the liquid which pretty much requires a tuned probe inserted directly into the liquid.

      Cavitation is a powerful enough phenomenon to crack chemical bonds in organic materials. I have a paper from the journal Macromolecular Materials Engineering 2005, vol 290 423-429 about ultrasonics cracking epoxy rings.

      Kudos to andy_b for his demonstration but I'm going to say that the power in the demo was likely applied in the wrong way to make this work.

      Regards all,
      Cameron

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ckelloug
        A 750 Watt ultrasonic homogenizer like a medium sized Sonics and Materials unit applied directly to the liquid via the tuned titanium probe would undoubtedly make short work of it. You can't accomplish much with ultrasonics unless you can induce cavitation in the liquid which pretty much requires a tuned probe inserted directly into the liquid.

        Cavitation is a powerful enough phenomenon to crack chemical bonds in organic materials. I have a paper from the journal Macromolecular Materials Engineering 2005, vol 290 423-429 about ultrasonics cracking epoxy rings.

        Kudos to andy_b for his demonstration but I'm going to say that the power in the demo was likely applied in the wrong way to make this work.

        Regards all,
        Cameron
        i completely agree. of course, if you're going to stick something into the liquid to stir it, a $0.01 plastic stick would be preferable to a $10,000 tuned titanium ultrasonic probe.

        andy b.
        The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

        Comment


        • #34
          andy,

          as Lazlo's signature says: Engineers solve problems. If there aren't any problems, they will make their own.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ckelloug
            A 750 Watt ultrasonic homogenizer like a medium sized Sonics and Materials unit applied directly to the liquid via the tuned titanium probe would undoubtedly make short work of it. You can't accomplish much with ultrasonics unless you can induce cavitation in the liquid which pretty much requires a tuned probe inserted directly into the liquid.

            Cavitation is a powerful enough phenomenon to crack chemical bonds in organic materials. I have a paper from the journal Macromolecular Materials Engineering 2005, vol 290 423-429 about ultrasonics cracking epoxy rings.

            Kudos to andy_b for his demonstration but I'm going to say that the power in the demo was likely applied in the wrong way to make this work.

            Regards all,
            Cameron
            I'm still not sold..... It seems that ANY ultrasonic input is not necessarily going to induce gross motions in the liquid..... not unless heating creates convection currents.

            I agree that with lots of input power, what IS mixed will be *very well mixed* (and maybe too well mixed), but will it really mix a whole cup in a short time?

            What is the mechanism creating gross circulations?
            1601

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

            Comment


            • #36
              Hmmm

              Originally posted by ckelloug
              andy,

              as Lazlo's signature says: Engineers solve problems. If there aren't any problems, they will make their own.
              Cameron,

              as an Engineer yourself are you suggesting that if there were no Engineers that there would be no problems created to solve?

              Or are Engineers the problem?

              If there were no problems would there be no Engineers?

              Or conversely, that if there were no Engineers would there be no problems?

              As this may be more philosophical than subjective, are Engineers both philosophers and philosophical?

              Comment


              • #37
                Tiffie,

                Here's how you find you're working with an engineer

                You ask "How do you kill a fly?"

                a.) Laser guided sledge hammer with electromagnetic braking

                b.) Sledge hammer

                c.) Fly swatter

                Those who answer "a" are definitely engineers. Those who answer "b" are engineers in training. Those who answer "c" are normal.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Lumps and bumps

                  Thanks Cameron.

                  I'd have thought they'd have called out the Marines - or a SWAT team - or some minion - I can't see them doing it for themselves - YUK!!

                  But seriously, I have had the pleasure of working with some superbly creative, versatile and practical Engineers (just about all disciplines!!) - even the Builders, Clients and Contractors were huge fans of those Engineers - so was I!!.

                  Needless to say - as with any group - there are "others"!!

                  Same with some Architects, Accountants, Lawyers, Surveyors etc.

                  The very best of them had that gift of being able to laugh at themselves, not take themselves too seriously, made a point of listening to and respecting others and their opinions as well.

                  In my opinion, you are firmly in those categories.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Andy_B, thanks for the practical test.

                    Looks like a glass cup you used, I'm going to try with a thin plastic disposable.
                    This product has been determined by the state of California to cause permanent irreversible death. This statement may or may not be recognized as valid by all states.
                    Heirs of an old war/that's what we've become Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb
                    Plastic Operators Dot Com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      In chemistry labs they have a small plastic coated metal capsule that is a bit bigger than a vitamin capsule. It is put in a glass beaker with the stuff you want to mix, it can be hot or cold. It is then placed on a surface underwhich is a spinning magnet. The plastic coated metal capsule spins like a whirling dervish and mixes the liquid in seconds. The capsule is extracted with a magnetic wand, rinsed and ready for its next use. Sure would be simpler than ultrasonic, cheaper and just as fast! Fred

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I hate top tell you this, but some engynear already so-luted this problem. I was at a college outside of NYC this past fall and my exchange student and I went to the college Starbucks in the student cafeteria. She asked for some type of cold coffee drink and they put the cup under the type of machine that i can only describe as the old hot chocolate machines of days past - those mix and water disgusting things. whack a few buttons to code in the drink and what da ya know, out comes instant cold coffee chocolate chip type of drink in the cup slick as ....well....it should have been hidden behind a wall anyway so I did not feel as cheated for the $6.00 I spent for somethng like this. To add ambience to the drink, said cashier/drinkmiester/barista/ added some whipped cream on top of it, asked if the drink was "to go" (yes), and whacked a lid on top of it all crushing the ambience.

                        A kind of "below ultra super subsonic " type of technology revived to "solutioniate" the problem at hand - or better put "Old school".

                        Macs uses a cold coffee type of thing, but hear they may go the instant way as well.
                        Last edited by spope14; 03-30-2009, 07:43 PM.
                        CCBW, MAH

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Guinness already makes an ultrasonic device for drinks called the Surger. Works great for (the special surger cans of) Guinness, doesn't do too much for other stuff. I haven't tried coffee tho. To work properly, you need to use a glass (no paper/plastic cups) and put a small bit of water in the base of the unit.

                          http://www.t3.com/news/make-your-gui...a-sonic?=32337

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Liger Zero
                            Andy_B, thanks for the practical test.

                            Looks like a glass cup you used, I'm going to try with a thin plastic disposable.

                            the shot glass just happens to be a perfect fit inside my small ultrasonic unit because the glass is about 1/4" higher than the max liquid level in the ultrasonic. a trick i learned to clean parts and save cleaning solution is to put the parts and cleaning solution in a shot glass, and then just fill the ultrasonic with water. the ultrasonic energy needs a transfer medium, and water and glass work well.

                            the reason i say this is because depending on the plastic you use, it may actually dampen the ultrasonic vibrations instead of conducting them. you need to use a dense plastic, Styrofoam won't work. i just wanted to mention this so you can take it into account during your testing. post back how you make out and what setup you use. whether it works out or not isn't always the point, the data is always interesting.

                            good luck on the testing!!!

                            andy b.
                            The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Well I have several cups I want to try, mostly PETE of different thicknesses. Takeout cups.

                              Problem is time. I got the "junk" down in the basement but since the car needs a serious attitude adjustment I've picked up a part-time job in the hopes of replacing the POS with something less temperamental.

                              Generally when they develop attitude problems around 250,000 miles its time to drag them out back and crush 'em.
                              This product has been determined by the state of California to cause permanent irreversible death. This statement may or may not be recognized as valid by all states.
                              Heirs of an old war/that's what we've become Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb
                              Plastic Operators Dot Com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by spope14
                                they put the cup under the type of machine that i can only describe as the old hot chocolate machines of days past - those mix and water disgusting things. whack a few buttons to code in the drink and what da ya know, out comes instant cold coffee chocolate chip type of drink in the cup slick as ....well....
                                But did you taste it? We have those machines at work, and the drinks it mixes taste like... well...

                                As far as Starbuck's primary business -- Cappuccino, it supposed to be in layers! You wouldn't stir-up a Black and Tan, would you?

                                If you've ever tried to make cappuccino at home, it's not easy. The espresso beans must be fresh (oily) and freshly ground, and you have to pack it just right to get the golden-brown frothy liquid that has all the flavor. Frothing the milk to make the "micro-foam" is another art, although it's a lot easier to steam non-fat or 2% milk, but Italians use a a light cream which is really hard to froth correctly...
                                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X