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the big monster comes home - old iron department

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  • the big monster comes home - old iron department

    missed St Patricks by a week, but the green factor in the shop just went waaaay up.

    The XLO found a friend, a breautiful Elliot (Victoria) P2, a 3600 lb small horizontal. I'm still a plebe by Fastracks standards but this a nice machine and just the right size....

    solicited the help of a buddy and his forklift company and he showed up with a full highway trailer and maybe the biggest forklift I’ve ever seen





    These forks extened 10’ into the garage dropping it in the middle of the floor…Evan, recognize the good looking guy? Erik hooked me up with the mill and was a huge help getting home



    I moved it around tonight, slow and careful. I used a 1 ¾ solid bar on one end and a hex on the other. The hex was because I had it but it actually worked out very well…. eliminates the risk of the monster rolling but it slides fairly easily over the top of the hex. I just took my time and was careul, still was pretty tired after moving it 8 feet and rotating it 90.

    .

  • #2
    The core accessories are present


    Vertical head


    Orginal rotary table – there’s also the vise but it didn’t make it into the pictures



    And there she is, in place, needing a 600 V 3 phase service (next project)





    Now I need one of those great horizontal milling cutter gloats I read about!
    .

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    • #3
      Nice! I'm envious.

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      • #4
        That looks to be a very well made mill best I can tell from pictures.

        What sizes are your arbors? You will have better luck finding batches of cutters if you have one at least 1-1/4". Better still would be to have a 1-1/2" arbor because you can use all the stuff that the rest of us can't. Most small to mid size horizontals seem to come with maybe 7/8 and 1" or perhaps 1" and 1-1/4" arbors on the large end...precluding the use of some of the cutters you might find surplus from industrial supply places.

        In any case, clean it up to the degree that meets your satisfaction and show us a picture or two of that thing doing its business.

        Edit-- I have been tuned out a lot lately...you mention an XLO...did you pick up one of those too? They have a big one downstairs in the shop I "borrow" from time to time. Its a hungry machine indeed :-)

        Paul
        Paul Carpenter
        Mapleton, IL

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        • #5
          Congrats! I need to get my paws on a milling machine one of these days. I sort of tripped over the shaper while searching for a mill like that one. Somehow I always end up falling in love with the really big, beat up pieces though. Your post reminded me, the shaper I just bought used to be painted green!

          I bet moving that around by hand was awfully tiring! I've gotten spoiled with my BIL, but one of these days I'm going to have to "grow a pair" and do it by hand.

          Looks like a nice mill!

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          • #6
            thanks Fastrack, too small for you though......

            Paul, yes, I;ve had an XLO for 15 years now, wouldn't give it up. I guess I'm living in my own past; recreating my high school machine shop a machine at a time
            .

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            • #7
              excellent score!!!!!
              that looks to be in great condition as well. can it be rewired to 240V or something other than 600V? then again, i have no idea what normal voltages in Canada are.

              andy b.
              The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

              Comment


              • #8
                The horizontal mill cutters find you after a while- they lurk in 500 lb or so piles. In many cases, not unlike a boat- the two best times for the owner are when they are bought and when sold. If your tastes run to large cutters, make sure your machine can get down to low rpms- a nice mill like yours probably does though.

                Great looking mill. As you tool up, keep an eye out for shell end mill arbors, collet & endmill holders, etc.. Even a drill chuck will likely come in handy. Turning vertical work over on its side works out surprisingly well once you get used to it. Your machine has lots of y axis, which is a big advantage. You might try finding out if you can fit CAT40 tooling too- might only need to make a drawbar.

                Most of the stuff I do on the horizontal uses shell end mills, regular endmills, collets and a drill chuck. I've only mounted an arbor w/ "official" horizontal cutter once...

                Regards,

                Greg

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                • #9
                  Hey, not to hi-jack the thread, but how does drilling work on a horizontal mill? Obviously it would work, but from a "purist's" standpoint, is there anything wrong with feeding the drill horizontally. I don't guess it'd be any different than in a lathe ... I bet you could cut some big holes with horizontal mill, though. A big ol' mill with a low rpm and maybe, if you were lucky, autofeed on the table ... I want to try it now

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                  • #10
                    Nice score Mcgyver, I'm almost a shade greener than your mill.......LOL

                    Comes with all the right accessories also........well done.

                    I've had good luck with xformers at industrial salvage places, not alot to go wrong with them generally.......got a 9KVA reconditioned (rattle can O/H) for $400.
                    Opportunity knocks once, temptation leans on the doorbell.....

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                    • #11
                      A really great find

                      Hi McGyver.

                      I think that you are one very lucky person!!

                      If that is a "Victoria" - and it looks like it is - and it is in half decent condition, you have one very fine medium horizontal mill - especially with the vertical milling attachment.

                      That will be same or very similar to John Stevenson's - the one he does all the hobbing - helical and straight/spur gear work - on.

                      I have some very fond memories of that mill from my early days as an Apprentice and just after. They are very capable and reliable. I had the slotting head as well. It was for light to medium work and was a favourite of a lot of us in the Mchine Shops (several) - even though we had Cincinnati's and TOS etc. machines too. They were extensively used in Trade Schools then.

                      If I could lay hands on one like yours I have it in a blink.

                      Its only a small thing, but I recognised it - and like it - because of the visible oil level glass on the arbour journal supports. There should be very little excuse for running dry.

                      A great find.

                      My next preference on this Board would be Torker's (Russ's) Van Norman as I had some good times and results on that too.

                      My real pipe dream would be the Schaublin mills and lathes we had in the Tool and Instrument shops - as dear as ........................ and as scarce as rocking-horse $hit - but truly truly fabulous machines in every way - they are my idea of a real jewel. But its out of my league.

                      I will just hope for a go at one of those Victoria's ("Elliott") - as I guess that Derekm - member here from UK - had captured or cornered the market for Elliott machines. That one must have slipped under his radar.

                      Perhaps John Stevenson will comment on your Elliott/Victoria mill.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fasttrack
                        Hey, not to hi-jack the thread, but how does drilling work on a horizontal mill? Obviously it would work, but from a "purist's" standpoint, is there anything wrong with feeding the drill horizontally[?]
                        -Nope, not a thing wrong with it.

                        The only drawback being most horizontals have limited Y-axis travel, so a conventional Jacobs-mounted drill chuck and conventional drill can eat up a lot of that room.

                        The fix, as Greg and others have suggested, and I have yet to try, is to go with a ER or other double-angle type collet holder. An NMTB ER-40 collet holder only sticks out of the spindle about two inches, max, and a short "screw machine" length drill let you make the most of the limited travel.

                        I plan on getting one (the collet holder) for this exact reason one of these days.

                        Doc.
                        Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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                        • #13
                          The big PIA with these mills is the handles.Three pins engaging three holes,cheao to make,don`t last long before the pins/holes are all chewed up.

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                          • #14
                            Did you get the drive gear for the vertical head ?

                            Nearly identical to mine but mine is the U2 model with swivel table, cleaner than mine though.
                            They are a good work horse, when I was milling with mine it used to cut 7/8" wide tool slots in toolholders 7/8" deep in one pass.

                            It spends all it's life now setup as a hobbing machine.
                            .

                            Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                            • #15
                              A graet and versatile machine.

                              Originally posted by Fasttrack
                              Hey, not to hi-jack the thread, but how does drilling work on a horizontal mill? Obviously it would work, but from a "purist's" standpoint, is there anything wrong with feeding the drill horizontally. I don't guess it'd be any different than in a lathe ... I bet you could cut some big holes with horizontal mill, though. A big ol' mill with a low rpm and maybe, if you were lucky, autofeed on the table ... I want to try it now
                              I agree with Doc as regards the limited "Y". but with that vertical head:

                              turned on its side (horizontal) and provided that you can pack or hold the job at the centre height of the now horizontal vertical milling/drilling-head, you have all available "X", "Y" and "Z" space to work with as a drill or a milling head etc. It can also be used as a very big powerful lathe if the work is short enough and fits between the table rear face and the knee vertical dove-tail slide (sort of like a "gap" lathe) with the job in a chuck mounted in the mill horizontal (arbor) spindle. You can similarly mount a job in a chuck or face-plate fitted to the vertical milling head.

                              It works pretty well as a taper turning attachment as well with the tool-post fitted to either the machine bed (preferred) or alternatively the "Z" or "Y" dove-tails.

                              It becomes a very versatile, heavy robust "short/stubby" "lathe".

                              Cutters need to be kept very sharp, so I'd suggest that you be a "new best friend" to/with someone with a good tool and cutter grinder.

                              As you have the original - very good and very big - rotary table, I'd suggest that you try to see if you can get one of the slotting attachments as I can assure you that a lot of the work that may otherwise be done on a shaper will be much better done on that slotter.

                              A great mill, a great find, and I sure do wish I was that lucky.

                              You will have a lot of joy with that machine!!!

                              It is a fine example of British machines at their very best - which, in their day, were superb and very hard to beat.

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