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  • Kerney & Trecker Dividing Head parts

    What do I need to mount a faceplate and 3 jaw Chuck on this dividing head?
    This is all I have so far.



  • #2
    Now you have us all salivating how about some pics of the mill.......LOL
    Opportunity knocks once, temptation leans on the doorbell.....

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    • #3
      They use a 50 taper. Mine is a little different in that it uses 4 bolts. I don't have a chuck for that one but do have one for the Model K dividing head that one uses a drawbar instead of bolting to the face.. I really doubt you will find anything off the shelf maybe Ebay. You could take a 50 taper shell mill holder or large endmill holder and machine it to adapt to a chuck or faceplate. This would also require making a drawbolt that doesn't interfer when in the vertical posoition.

      John Oder did a writeup on doing this in the Heavy Iron section of PM. I'll try to find it.
      Jon Bohlander
      My PM Blog

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      • #4
        My bad. He made a backplate that bolted to the face of the spindle.

        MR ODER'S WRITEUP

        I also bought a 50 taper collet chuck to make it easier to hold small parts.
        My K&T mill is 50 taper but I mainly use Kwik Switch 300 tooling.
        Last edited by moldmonkey; 04-05-2009, 04:35 PM.
        Jon Bohlander
        My PM Blog

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        • #5
          On the Model H DH the spindle hole is a #40. I think the chuck mount is a modified A type, probably A1-4.
          The #50 taper is for the 5:1 Hypoid head, which is a larger head.
          Harry

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          • #6
            I have both and they are both 50. Well I haven't even cleaned up the H yet. I haven't found a nameplate either so it could be a different brand (Cinncinatti?) but it sure looks like a K&T H. If they are anything like the K&T mills, every model had lots of possible configurations. The handbook will have the specs for milling maachine tapers to check which yours is.
            Jon Bohlander
            My PM Blog

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hardtail
              Now you have us all salivating how about some pics of the mill.......LOL
              Sorry, the mill is a Webb, not a K&T. But I'll get a pic if you want to see it.

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              • #8
                50 taper/40 taper/A1-4? I don't know what any of that means. Can you make a reference to anything in the Enco, MSC, Wholesale Tool inventory?

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                • #9
                  Scoll down this page. Mill tapers can be NMTB, CAT, or BT in the various sizes. The same size is basically the same among the 3. CAT and BT are interchangeable except for the drawbar thread. NMTB has the extra straight section which makes for a different drawbar length and the slots for the driving lugs are slightly different (I forget the exact difference) which is usually gotten around by removing one of the lugs. Compare the largest diameter of the taper of your dividng head to the chart to find out if it is a 40 or 50.

                  http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html#CAT

                  I can't any specs for a A1-4 lathe spindle . A series is similar to Dseries but bolts on instead of using camlocks. Here are some lathe nose specs.

                  http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/chuckmt.html
                  Last edited by moldmonkey; 04-06-2009, 08:27 PM.
                  Jon Bohlander
                  My PM Blog

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                  • #10
                    That is the same d-head I have.
                    I wold adapt the chuck and bolt it on.
                    Do you also have the user/owners manual? If so I would pay for a copy.
                    Please advise.
                    JCD

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                    • #11
                      Sorry, I gave some bad information about the spindle mount of the K&T DH. It is not an A or D style, but a very simple mount. The OD of the spindle is 3-1/2" and it is straignt not tapered. The spindle does have a key way, and 3 mounting holes for a bolting on the chuck. The 1st picture is a close up of the spindle, with a driver key I made. The little round seating pin is screw operated from the top of the key. It firmly locates the chuck to keep from moving. The second picture is of the stuff I made for the head, with the exception of the dog driver. I do have all 7 of the index plates that K&T made for the head, the 3 standard and 4 high number plates, but I didn't have the index pin for the high number plates, the center sleeve, or the draw bar for #40 holders. These parts should be on the parts sheet. The 3rd picture is the backside of the chuck that came with the head. A backplate should be easy to make. The center recess goes over the spindle, and the screws attach it to the spindle. The 1st 2 pictures were taken 2 years ago, and the 3rd today. Hope this clarifies some questions for you.





                      Harry

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JCD

                        Do you also have the user/owners manual?
                        I have just that diagram and parts list. PM me your email & I'll send you scans.
                        Which model is it, H, K? There's been a manual available on eBay for a while still listed today for a model K.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for all the ideas. I thought I was going to have to find the actual parts in the diagram.

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                          • #14
                            OK, things have developed since my original posting of the question. Now I actually have a project that requires the use of this dindexing head.
                            The small end of the spindle is 1.123", and the big end is 1.709". Which doesn't match the chart sizes, but is closest to #40.

                            Can I just get a 40 taper 5C collet chuck or 3jaw chuck without having to make adapters? What about the drawbar? I wouldn't mind making a drawbar.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I saw this thread start a while back and just kept reading it to see how it all turned out. Sounds as though you are having more of a need for this piece of tooling that you own. So... A few questions.

                              What is the first item that you want to have on this dividing head for your project? Faceplate, collet or 3-jaw chuck (or something different)?

                              Do you have a lathe to make the parts needed for the taper?

                              It looks as though you have some measurements for the taper, but they don't directly match anything. Those two numbers are not all bad but you will need the exact distance between the measuring points to finish a taper calculation.

                              Since you think that you have something near a #40 why not find a #40 tapered tool holder of some sort and see how it fits. Many local machine shops enjoy little puzzles like this. Take it over to one and ask them if they have a #40 that you can try out in the head. If that wont work, purchase a #40 off of ebay, see how it fits and go from there.

                              OR

                              Get a chunk of round that is bigger than the spindle and kinda thick depending on what you want in the end. Turn the od and face it up so that the ends are parallel. On one end, cut a bore that will snugly fit over the spindle of the dividing head. Transfer the bolt pattern from the spindle to the plate that you just made. Counter bore some bolt holes in the plate. Now you have a universal bolt plate for this tool.

                              From that, if you want a collet chuck, decide on the collet type and fetch the dimensions for that type. Chuck back up on the plate (unless you are doing this while making the plate, then just do it all at once) indicate the large locating bore to absolute 0 tir and start cutting the collet dimensions.

                              If instead you want a 3-jaw mounted to it; find a 3-jaw chuck with a plain back or a known mount and in your adapter plate, cut the needed mounting. Remember to indicate it all up before cutting. If the 3-jaw is a plain back, then you will be bolting it to the adapter so you would have to indicate it as close as you can, drill and tap for bolts then put it on to the dividing head and finish indicate, then tighten it up. Dowel if you are getting crazy on the cutter pressures.

                              And yes, I dont see a reason that you cant get a #40 collet holder to put in there and run. I guess that would depend on exactly what you need to run in the dividing head. You would have to make a drawbar to fit the head and the collet holder.

                              What do you think? It takes a little time and you may well make an error, but thats how we all learn. I messed up a taper a few years back and had to start over, it happens. As for buying something off of the shelf, start looking. I dont know if anyone makes new stuff to bolt directly to this dividing head.

                              Your location is not in your profile so its tough to give you a supplier that might be close. I know that around here, HGR in Cleveland http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/ might have something that would work. Also, http://www.industrialmachinery.com helps me out once in a while. Ask for Jake if you call. There is another place out toward Nashport Ohio that has all sorts of stuff.

                              rock~
                              Last edited by rockrat; 07-12-2009, 09:57 AM.
                              Civil engineers build targets, Mechanical engineers build weapons.

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