Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Case Hardening recipe

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Case Hardening recipe

    These few pages came into my belonging a few years ago, thought a few people might find them handy..Ready made case hardening compounds are not available in this part of the world.. I have not tried it yet, but I am slowly getting the ingredients together.

    http://users.beagle.com.au/lathefan/...Hardening1.pdf
    Precision takes time.

  • #2
    Thank you very much. Stored in a safe place for future use. I always like to learn stuff like this. I want to try everything (though I am way behind!)

    THX again,
    Mark

    Comment


    • #3
      Ringer, a couple of years ago I wanted to try my hand at case hardening using Kasenite or one of the other cyanide compound case hardeners.

      Phoning various suppliers I quickly discovered that those sorts of cyanide products are off the market in Australia, but during my enquiries I did find a company at Archerfield I think, in Brisbane, which sold bags of pre-mixed charcoal based hardening powders.

      I'll have to dig through my notes to find who they were, I'll let you know when I find the name in case that is of interest to you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for posting that, I will add it to my pile of reference material.

        Incidentally, the process described is for "pack case hardening" - pack it up in a container and let it soak at heat til ready to quench type of process rather than the heat dip, heat dip, quench process that you would use with the likes of Casenite.

        The barium carbonate mentioned is a common chemical used by those who practice ceramic crafts. Check some of the local cermic supply houses for this and similar compounds.

        By the way, what is "whitting" as mentioned in this document?

        http://www.rosemill.com/default.asp?pageid=27391 has a product called "Cherry Red" and might be worthwhile checking into. I don't know if they have kind of distributor available on the other side of the world. Minimum it seems is to purchase 5lbs which is likely a life times supply for the average HSM and at $80 USD seems a bit high.

        Rosemill also sells pack case hardening compound and anti scaling compound. A read of the MSDS's for these products suggest they are primary based on borate compounds.

        Another Casenite like compound that might be found in that part of the world is a Harris product called "Quick Hard". Same basic product as Casenite but marketed by Harris under their name. The primary ingredient in this product is a common chemical used in the food processing industry as an anti caking compound.

        Personally I use the Harris "Quick Hard" product for case hardening and find it works well but I have meaning to try pack case hardening just for the sake of experimenting with the possibility to getting some color case hardening in the process.

        cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

        Comment


        • #5
          You also might want to see if you can adapt this information from my former employer on pack hardening: http://tinyurl.com/c24w9q.

          David
          Montezuma, IA
          David Kaiser
          “You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.”
          ― Robert A. Heinlein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bob ward
            Ringer, a couple of years ago I wanted to try my hand at case hardening using Kasenite or one of the other cyanide compound case hardeners.

            Phoning various suppliers I quickly discovered that those sorts of cyanide products are off the market in Australia, but during my enquiries I did find a company at Archerfield I think, in Brisbane, which sold bags of pre-mixed charcoal based hardening powders.

            I'll have to dig through my notes to find who they were, I'll let you know when I find the name in case that is of interest to you.
            Would that have been Hardite Bob??? I have heard that name mentioned a number of times but Google tells me nothing other then it was available many years ago..
            Precision takes time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GrahamC

              By the way, what is "whitting" as mentioned in this document?
              Graham, I believe whiting to be powdered chalk or Calcium Carbonate.
              Precision takes time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ringer
                Graham, I believe whiting to be powdered chalk or Calcium Carbonate.
                Thanks.

                this formula is pretty much like the one Guy Lautard published in his "Machinist Second Bedside Reader" in a story called "The Bullseye Mixture". The barium carbonate and calcium carbonate act to help cause carbon from the charcoal to be taken in by the steel being carburized.

                cheers, Graham

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GrahamC
                  this formula is pretty much like the one Guy Lautard published in his "Machinist Second Bedside Reader" in a story called "The Bullseye Mixture". The barium carbonate and calcium carbonate act to help cause carbon from the charcoal to be taken in by the steel being carburized.
                  I posted a thread here awhile ago asking about the Bullseye Mixture (there'a a warning on page 197 that says that Barium Carbonate is extremely poisonous). The general consensus, including one of the high-end gunsmith's who lurks here, is that Barium Carbonate is just a carbon absorbtion accelerator that wasn't necessary for home-shop case hardening.
                  "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You know guys, "extremely poisonous" is a description in the same category as "extremely pregnant!" Toxicity, aka "poisonosity" or poisonousness is quantified by a number that represents the grams per kilogram of body weight of the test animal/subject. It is properly termed the LD50 which simply means that a dose of X grams/kilogram of body weight will kill 50% of the specimens that have been exposed/innoculated or fed. The size of that number is important, or whether it is rated in grams or micrograms.
                    I checked Patty's "Industrial Hygiene & Toxicology," which states that it is indeed "highly toxic;" about 0.9 grams is fatal. However it is not very soluble in water, so what IS the problem-just BE CAREFULL! Arsenic, on the other hand is REAL MEAN, and milligrams are WAY TOO MUCH! (It was right beside Barium in the book.) Duffy
                    Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Go to your local chemist and ask them to order you some food grade sodium ferrocyanide. It's the exact same thing as Kasenit. BTW, Australia is a producer of same. It sells for about $1000 per tonne.
                      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evan
                        Go to your local chemist and ask them to order you some food grade sodium ferrocyanide. It's the exact same thing as Kasenit. BTW, Australia is a producer of same. It sells for about $1000 per tonne.
                        I tried that here in Ottawa. The only place that would deal with "off the street public" would gladly order what I wanted but at the price of $35 per ounce and that was for food grade stuff.

                        Some of the old time recipes include saltpeter (potassium nitrate). I used to buy saltpeter at the drug store when I was teenager but no longer. Apparently it is on Canada's restricted substance list and is tightly controlled - or so I was told at the same place that would gladly order what I wanted but at a price.

                        cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Doing a bit more reading (googling) about sodium ferrocyanide, I gather that while tonnes of the product are used in food annually, Kasenit etc is banned in the average workshop here by Workplace Health & Safety (WHS) because of the high temperature decompostition products.

                          Properly equipped heat treaters can still use it of course.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Duffy
                            I checked Patty's "Industrial Hygiene & Toxicology," which states that it is indeed "highly toxic;" about 0.9 grams is fatal. However it is not very soluble in water, so what IS the problem-just BE CAREFULL!
                            The concern that someone knowledgable expressed last time we discussed the Bullseye Mixture was that the barium carbonate vaporizes at case hardening temperatures, so you're breathing it, not ingesting it.
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bob ward
                              Doing a bit more reading (googling) about sodium ferrocyanide, I gather that while tonnes of the product are used in food annually, Kasenit etc is banned in the average workshop here by Workplace Health & Safety (WHS) because of the high temperature decompostition products.
                              That's very interesting. At room temperature, the cyanides in sodium ferrocyanide are completely inert, in fact its a component of food-grade anti-caking agents.

                              That doesn't necessarily extend to high temperatures, which could concievably free the cynaides from the metal (sodium) bonds, but sodium ferrocyanide is also a common component in welding rods, so that seems counter-intuitive.
                              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X