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  • #61
    Originally posted by dp
    I was at the local HF store yesterday and noticed they have 20 cu ft argon and CO/2 bottles. They seem quite small - is that a good way to go? Seems very limiting, but I've never tried gas with my MIG. They were certainly cheap - I assume they are empty when purchased.

    Those are really quite small. You'd be changing them frequently.
    Last edited by gnm109; 07-07-2009, 08:58 PM.

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    • #62
      Littlies and biggies

      There would not be much that is more expensive in terms of cu.ft/$ than those small bottles, but in terms of convenience - small jobs and/or small spaces etc. and no need to fill and buy larger bottles - there isn't much better.

      You should seriously consider a "real (good)" regulator for them - not all that expensive instead of the standard "fixed" (so-called) regulator.

      The question - more often than not - is more why you should buy them rather than why you should not.

      There are some very good plusses and minuses either way depending upon your circumstances.

      But if you use a fair bit of gas in your shop, those smaller bottle prices will very soon make you realise that the "expensive" gas that everybody seems to be bitching about is not so expensive after all.

      I have only see argon and CO/CO2. I can't recall seeing the best all-round gas for steel - 75/25.

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      • #63
        75/25 is Argon/CO2. The price of Argon and CO2 is a complete rip off. Argon is a side product from liquefying air to obtain oxygen and it isn't exactly rare either. Every cubic metre of atmosphere contains a litre of argon gas. We all know how easy CO2 is to obtain, in fact it is usually made as a by product of producing acetylene from natural gas. Unlike acetylene neither argon or CO2 are toxic, explosive, or difficult to transport. The only hazard involved at all is gas under pressure and there is no local ecological consequence from a release of either in common circumstances. The training to handle the products for sale is minimal, I have had it.

        Those two gases in particular undoubtedly reap by far the highest profit margin of any of the industrial compressed gases with the possible exception of nitrogen. I would expect that the profit margin from production to retail sale is on the order of 2000 percent or more. Keep in mind that these gases are by products of the production of other gases and when in excess are simply vented. Because of this it is unlikely that plant amortization is applied to the cost of production.
        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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        • #64
          No wukkin' furries

          I can not care less about "rip-offs" as me upsetting either myself or anyone else needlessly over something I either can't or won't do anything about is - in my opinion - an exercise in futility and stupidity on my part.

          Its either what I want for what I am prepared to pay on the day - or not. If it is a $10 item and I want it at that price. I buy it - couple of $ either way is of no concern. If was it "upped" to $100 and its essential that I have it - then I pay for it and use it. Sometimes that $100 was a good buy as there have been occasions which warranted paying $200 or more - with possibly more to come.

          I can't see the sense either in spending hours trawling the net or burning fuel and wasting time if it is urgent in the car just to save a couple of $ when it is available locally just for a few minutes trip - or even to have it delivered.

          It depends entirely on the circumstances and my judgment at the time.

          After I've bought it, its in the past and nothing will change it. I just - if needed - shrug my shoulders and move on.

          I just cannot see the sense in worrying needlessly.

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          • #65
            BOC pdf file - sheilding gases

            Read from page 57 onward for shielding gas recommendations in this BOC (AU = OZ) pdf file.

            https://boc.com.au/boc_sp/au/downloa...S03-IndGas.pdf

            I will hunt out and post some other stuff shortly as regards MIG weld shielding gases and will
            post them later.

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            • #66
              I can't see the sense either in spending hours trawling the net or burning fuel and wasting time if it is urgent in the car just to save a couple of $ when it is available locally just for a few minutes trip - or even to have it delivered.
              delivered ..hmmm

              in the UK you pick it up from the the dealer ..and BOC tags another delivery charge (fixed charge) on top of the gas price ..

              what you got for one bottle IN THE UK IS is :-

              BOC argoshield light size Y... 4.8 cubic metres

              1 bottle

              YEARLY RENTAL; £81.,70

              the gas in it ..

              34.85 plus £5.23 vat .. = £40.08
              environmental energy surcharge £0.45
              fixed charges on it £11.35 plus £1.70 vat =£13.05
              equals £55.88 for the gas in the bottle

              so YEARLY RENTAL; £81.,70 plus £55.88 for the gas in one bottle

              1 bottle costs me £137 or $220 a year ..

              you seam to have more time than me Evan ..glad you're on the case

              all the best.markj

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              • #67
                Originally posted by lazlo View Post
                We had a long thread about DIY CO2 generation (for welding) several months back.

                Straight CO2 gives a lousy arc compared with C25. It's hot, fiery arc that creates a ton of spatter. Straight C02 also oxidizes a lot more than C25, so most welding texts warn against using it on aluminum or stainless steel.

                I've used straight C02 on structural steel, and it was miserable. It penetrates like crazy though! Never tried it on aluminum.
                Stick with machining. You have no business MIG welding.

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                • #68
                  You do know that this thread finished 5 years ago don't you.
                  The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                  Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                  Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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