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  • #16
    Proxxon = German quality

    For real German quality compact machines it would be hard to go past Proxxon mills, lathes - manual and CNC-ed.

    http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...q=4&oq=proxxon

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    • #17
      Closing the shop

      I have read this thread a couple of times.

      It seems in large part to deal with "down-sizing" the shop to suit smaller premises ("condo", unit, flat etc) with a consequent reduction in number and capacity of machines and machining.

      Unless you own the premises out-right and are not constrained by your wife or family or a statutory or governing authority you may be pretty severely limited in what alterations you can make to accommodate your machines, let alone use them.

      Literally fitting those machines into closets will severely restrict the storage capacity otherwise available for your wife and her/other "things" and "requirements" - so a "domestic" is quite on the cards.

      If your machining activities are adjudged or regarded by others as being to the detriment of themselves or their property valuations or to the/their "peace and enjoyment" or the "general amenity ....... ", you may have a considerable problem. A Court Order or a prosecution or a "Cease and Desist" Order is quite on the cards.

      My guess is that many who are contemplating these activities are considering retirement and/or moving "some-where else".

      Even if all those "concerns" are of no consequence, there is or seems to be a quiet confidence that you you will be able to and want to pursue machining as a hobby.

      That in turn seems to infer a confidence that both you and your wife (if married) - or just yourself if on your own, will have the health, well-being and finances to continue as planned.

      That may well be not the case at all.

      My guess is that many contemplating the "Machines in a closet" route are anywhere from 50 years of age - or later - and either considering or have retired and find a "big shop" and "big machines" to be beyond their physical capacity to use.

      Many seem to not to want to face up to the increasing probability with age that the incidence and numbers of debilitating or disabling mental and physical conditions and disease will increase at an accelerating rate.

      The following table - which only goes to age 67 in the USA may be a bit of a wake-up call:
      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...03_Table_1.png

      It is from:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_table

      My life expectancy at age 72 in OZ is about 83, but my chances of dying and/or of being "unable to cope" increase almost exponentially as each year passes.

      So, even though I have a good chance of making it to 83 (11 years), being alive is one thing but my mental and physical state may be quite another in the meantime.

      I could be my wife's carer - or vice versa, or either or both of us may have to go into a retirement home/village and/or a more intensive - and quite expensive - care facility.

      The current medical assessment is that my wife and I stand a quite good chance of living to 83 in my case and 88 in the case of my wife. Our chances of being fit and able to stay where we are until we die or perhaps avoid where "closet machining" is required are considerably less.

      A lot depends on what funds we have at the time.

      If we were to be put into "care" or "guardianship" events and decisions may well be taken out of our hands.

      My best hope and assessment is that we will be here and my wife and I will be able to pursue our interests (shop included) for another 5>8 years (my age 77>80) with a rapidly diminishing chance of staying that way - or here - after that.

      My wife and I are pretty busy around the property (1 1/2 acres ~ 0/60 Hectare (Ha)) and go to the gym three times a week (cardio, weights, stretches, "fit(ness)" ball etc. which takes about 2 1/4>2 1/2 hours a session. We often go for a 2 mile (~3.3Km) or more walk as well.

      Suffice to say, our pretty good physical fitness has stood us in good stead. It may well delay the inevitable physical and mental decay - but it sure won't prevent it or guarantee that we will reach our life expectancy.

      Considering a "closet" shop is not on my agenda.

      With the shop its a case of "all or nothing" (aka "all or bugger all").

      I will make the best of it as I want to and as I am able to - but when the "day" comes to walk out of it, I am quite ready for it and will do it without any regrets or qualms at all - even if it happens tomorrow, next week, next month, next year - or when-ever.

      All I am hoping for is a few weeks to destroy everything in the shop and reduce it to scrap and dispose of it.

      We don't need any of the funds - or trauma - of a sale, as we are adequately provided for - either together or singly.

      So - no "closet" shop here.

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      • #18
        i followed everything you said (and can agree with a good portion of it) until you got here...

        Originally posted by oldtiffie
        All I am hoping for is a few weeks to destroy everything in the shop and reduce it to scrap and dispose of it.

        We don't need any of the funds - or trauma - of a sale, as we are adequately provided for - either together or singly.

        So - no "closet" shop here.
        is your shop full of stolen government secrets or machines dropped off by aliens? it just seems kind of an odd desire to "destroy everything". it is your equipment to do with as you please and i'm not telling you to do otherwise, or even explain your reasons. i'm just making an observation that it seems odd.

        andy b.
        The danger is not that computers will come to think like men - but that men will come to think like computers. - some guy on another forum not dedicated to machining

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        • #19
          A guy I know has his workshop in one room of his apartment. Taig mill, lathe and a drill press. The ancilliary items fill the rest of the room.

          The floor is covered with a large carpet. When I asked him why he would leave a carpet in a workshop, his reply was "it traps all the swarf!"

          There is a special issue book available from the publishers of MEW on workshops. The UK modellers seem to be able to do amazing work in tiny shops, so there may be some tips in the book on how to cope.

          Geoff

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          • #20
            Dead to rights.

            Originally posted by andy_b
            i followed everything you said (and can agree with a good portion of it) until you got here...

            Originally Posted by oldtiffie
            All I am hoping for is a few weeks to destroy everything in the shop and reduce it to scrap and dispose of it.

            We don't need any of the funds - or trauma - of a sale, as we are adequately provided for - either together or singly.

            So - no "closet" shop here.
            is your shop full of stolen government secrets or machines dropped off by aliens? it just seems kind of an odd desire to "destroy everything". it is your equipment to do with as you please and i'm not telling you to do otherwise, or even explain your reasons. i'm just making an observation that it seems odd.

            andy b.
            Andy.

            The last thing I want is an endless parade of people trawling through the shop as it will be impossible to know who is there or what they are doing or intend. I won't know until after the event if something is "missing" or if we are to get a "visit" after dark or when we go out. It will worry my wife stiff and both of us can do without that.

            No matter how it runs, I will have stuff to dispose of and I will need some of the stuff that might have been sold etc. to reduce it to scrap. It will all go into dumpsters.

            I am not interested in selling it at fire-sale prices either for some-one else to make a "killing" from.

            There is no residual value there as I "wrote it all off" as soon as I bought it.

            Its all new or as new - just ordinary shop stuff - nothing special about it at all - but there is a lot of it.

            As I said, while the small amount of money might be "handy" it really is not worth the hassle. I don't really need the money or the trauma - and I certainly don't need a new class of "New best friends" while I am alive nor does my wife when I am dead or unable to cope.

            There will be no "tool gloats" here, nor is anyone in any position to say I "owe them" or that anything was "promised" to them in any way.

            I started the shop with a "clean slate" and I intend to finish it the same way.

            Comment


            • #21
              Tiff; don't they have auctions in Australia? That is the best way to dispose of a large accumulation of tools and convert it into cash. While they might provide a few tool gloats, they also provide aspiring HSM's or small shops to equip theselves with tooling that would be otherwise out of reach to them.

              Your approach seems short sighted and quite selfish to me. When I go or downsize, my shop will go at auction.
              Jim H.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by oldtiffie

                I started the shop with a "clean slate" and I intend to finish it the same way.
                Well, I'm certainly glad the folks who used to have my shop tools and equipment did not "think" like that............ I find it utterly incomprehensible. But its your stuff......

                Are you Dinee? Do you plan to die in the shop? If not, I can't imagine the reason for your plan.

                I have an area over my bench where any nameplates etc from what is now "my" stuff are displayed. I like to know the tools were used well by someone before, and I try to continue the tradition.
                Last edited by J Tiers; 07-18-2009, 10:47 AM.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

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                • #23
                  "Junk" - good or bad?

                  Well, perhaps its best this way as most of it is "China" stuff with a good smattering of stuff made in OZ, Japan and Europe - and some small stuff made in the USA.

                  Not a bit of "good old "Made in the USA iron"" in the shop, so going by some of the comments I've seen here, its all "junk" and "not worth having".

                  And who am I to argue?

                  So junk it is and junk it will be treated as.

                  But junk or not, you may be assured that there will be some pretty good work done - by my standards anyway - with it in the meantime.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The other consideration, aside from passing the tools on to someone who might have a real need for them, is that chances are very good that you will not have the opportunity to Dumpsterize them. A stroke, or heart attack for instance can remove you from the equation in a matter of a few minutes, leaving your wife to dispose of the tools.

                    My wife has instructions and the name of the auction house I recommend for her to dispose of my belongings. Her only instruction is to allow the kids to sort and take what they want and then get rid of the rest as quickly as possible.
                    Jim H.

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                    • #25
                      Tiff, I have always enjoyed reading your posts as you have a wealth of experience and wisdom you share with the board.
                      However I strongly disagree with your desire to destroy and or junk your machinery when it is time for your end here.
                      I hope you will give this more thought...
                      Perhaps a little more trust in your fellow man?
                      Steve

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                      • #26
                        On the down-hill run.

                        True Jim.

                        But all of life is a lottery.

                        We both see our General Practitioner every 2 weeks - without fail. Have been doing it for years. We get excellent service and any and every test and service that is needed. None of it costs us a cent out of pocket. Specialists and Private Hospital will cost my wife a mininal amount for the very best of care. I pay nothing as I am a Veteran.

                        Drugs/prescriptions are about US$4.30 each. So we should have as good a chance and fore-warning as any - but no absolute certainty.

                        At 72 I am well over the top of the hill (83/2 = 42) and accelerating and 30 years into the down-hill run - and I know the risks and the reality of it all.

                        Suffice to say that if I get "caught", there are Plans "B" and "C" in place for the contingencies you mention.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by oldtiffie
                          All I am hoping for is a few weeks to destroy everything in the shop and reduce it to scrap and dispose of it.

                          We don't need any of the funds - or trauma - of a sale, as we are adequately provided for - either together or singly.
                          Mick, have you considered donating your equipment to a school? I'm sure there are some local vo-ed schools that would love to have it?

                          Or, barring that, arrange to have the machinery auctioned off, and donate the proceeds to your favorite charity?
                          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I think the "shop in a closet" idea isn't a necessity but an example that if one has to down size it is still possible to have a hobby, maybe not in the most desirable form but a still useful one.

                            As for calculating out how many good years one might have left, forget it, the only good way to look at life is to think you are going to live forever and plan for it in that manner, why else do 70 and 80 year old people go back to school when they might not live long enough to graduate.

                            Just cause we get old isn't a good reason to quit living, that the surest way to end up in the ground fast. Just keep your mind active and your body moving, if you have to move out of your house and shop then adapt.

                            It ain't over till it's over.
                            The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                            Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                            Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by oldtiffie
                              We both see our General Practitioner every 2 weeks - without fail. Have been doing it for years. We get excellent service and any and every test and service that is needed. None of it costs us a cent out of pocket. Specialists and Private Hospital will cost my wife a mininal amount for the very best of care. I pay nothing as I am a Veteran.

                              Drugs/prescriptions are about US$4.30 each. So we should have as good a chance and fore-warning as any - but no absolute certainty.
                              Pure fantasy. I'm two decades younger than you but have had two heart attacks. You can take it from me - they hit with no warning, and no test will show that they're on the way. The medical establishment still has no idea why I had them, as I fit none of the standard profiles for at-risk patients. But they happened nonetheless.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Not decrepit or senile - yet (I hope!!)

                                Originally Posted by oldtiffie
                                All I am hoping for is a few weeks to destroy everything in the shop and reduce it to scrap and dispose of it.

                                We don't need any of the funds - or trauma - of a sale, as we are adequately provided for - either together or singly.
                                Originally posted by lazlo
                                Mick, have you considered donating your equipment to a school? I'm sure there are some local vo-ed schools that would love to have it?

                                Or, barring that, arrange to have the machinery auctioned off, and donate the proceeds to your favorite charity?
                                I've thought of that too Lazlo, but other than "new" stuff that was bought by the "vocational" schools and colleges, a lot of donated stuff just either "gets lost", or is "borrowed" or "stored off-site" (long term) or just used as basic stuff. I know of a couple of people who explored that route "in confidence" and had a surprising number of people who "knew" or had "heard" about it. Not for me/us.

                                Auctioning is "out" for reasons given previously.

                                Originally posted by loose nut
                                I think the "shop in a closet" idea isn't a necessity but an example that if one has to down size it is still possible to have a hobby, maybe not in the most desirable form but a still useful one.

                                As for calculating out how many good years one might have left, forget it, the only good way to look at life is to think you are going to live forever and plan for it in that manner, why else do 70 and 80 year old people go back to school when they might not live long enough to graduate.

                                Just cause we get old isn't a good reason to quit living, that the surest way to end up in the ground fast. Just keep your mind active and your body moving, if you have to move out of your house and shop then adapt.

                                It ain't over till it's over.
                                I will have no trouble but will have the resources to change hobbies if and when the time arrives.

                                I am not calculating how long I have to live or my condition/s in the meantime as definitive quantities - I am just assessing the risks and probabilities in my specific case on a regular basis.

                                My wife and I live a very good life - and pretty well live it to the full - and intend to keep doing what of it we can for as long as we can. We will make such "adjustments" as are required as needs arise. We could "go on" as we are from say tomorrow or until we are 100 - or any time in between. The shop will "stay" as long as I have a use for it.

                                I am not a moralist or a fatalist, but I do hope that I am realistic and pragmatic.

                                If all goes well - and I/we hope that it does - we will be here doing as we want for as long as we can.

                                We are very "happy in our skins".

                                So, the shop is intended to be used and the contents added to as and if required until - for what-ever reason/s - I can't continue to use it as a machine shop. It may well be partly or progressively emptied and "re-stocked" for a future use or hobby. But I won't be hanging onto too much "just in case" and/or for "sentimental" reasons.

                                With a bit of luck, we will be in reasonable shape and I will be using my shop for a while yet.

                                There is plenty of drawer-space, bench/work-space and shelving in the shop and so there is no need for "closet-space" in the shed or the house, but I do have a lot of "other stuff" in the house.

                                So, unless I/we have a run of really bad luck and/or do something really stupid, there is a pretty reasonable chance that we will be doing pretty well within our capacity to cope for quite a while yet.

                                Or perhaps I am decrepit and senile already but don't know it - I hope not.

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