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  • Using a horizontal mill...

    Hi all

    i'm in the process of squeezing a horizontal mill into my home shop, its and Adcock & Shipley 2E with 40int taper.

    Being new to horizontals but not milling, i wondered if anyone had any sage advice regarding use, safety, when to use what type of cutter, workholding etc.

    I have already been advised to bury the cutter and not play with it, I know about getting the overarm support near the action.

    When its up and running, i plan to cut some 4DP gears, gashing them first with a plain cutter to reduce wear on my new gear cutters.

    As always, thanks in advance.
    Dave
    If it does'nt fit, hit it.
    https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
    http://www.davekearley.co.uk

  • #2
    Originally posted by Davek0974
    Hi all

    i'm in the process of squeezing a horizontal mill into my home shop, its and Adcock & Shipley 2E with 40int taper.

    Being new to horizontals but not milling, i wondered if anyone had any sage advice regarding use, safety, when to use what type of cutter, workholding etc.

    I have already been advised to bury the cutter and not play with it, I know about getting the overarm support near the action.

    When its up and running, i plan to cut some 4DP gears, gashing them first with a plain cutter to reduce wear on my new gear cutters.

    As always, thanks in advance.
    Dave
    Coolant - lots of it.
    Helical cutters for wide cuts

    Comment


    • #3
      Coolant, ok,

      i've got loads of cutters, slab mills, stagger-tooth, side and face etc.

      Any more?

      How do i calculate speed / feed?

      Dave
      If it does'nt fit, hit it.
      https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
      http://www.davekearley.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Davek0974
        Coolant, ok,

        i've got loads of cutters, slab mills, stagger-tooth, side and face etc.

        Any more?

        How do i calculate speed / feed?

        Dave
        A HSS tooth is a HSS tooth - it don't know its a lathe bit, an endmill, or H cutter, it just feels the metal its biting.

        Comment


        • #5
          ok, makes sense i guess

          What about tooth / chip load?

          Dave
          If it does'nt fit, hit it.
          https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
          http://www.davekearley.co.uk

          Comment


          • #6


            80 revs, 1/4" depth of cut, material is 3" wide, one pass at 2nd feed up from the bottom out of 6.

            The tray is a boon, stop all the crap going back into the coolant drain
            .

            Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Davek0974
              ok, makes sense i guess

              What about tooth / chip load?

              Dave
              Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world.

              rpm = sfm * 3.82 / diam

              ipm = rpm * teeth * desired chip load

              What SFM and desired chip load you want is obviously determined by what you're actually cutting, how it's set up, the cutter you've picked, etc. If you've used an endmill before, it's pretty much the same values, just scaled up to the number of flutes and diameter in use.

              Comment


              • #8
                mine is a good bit smaller than John's, but it seems to like slower speed and more chipload the best. Faster and less isn't as nice.....tends to workharden stuff.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Getting traction

                  Originally posted by Davek0974
                  Hi all

                  i'm in the process of squeezing a horizontal mill into my home shop, its and Adcock & Shipley 2E with 40int taper.

                  Being new to horizontals but not milling, i wondered if anyone had any sage advice regarding use, safety, when to use what type of cutter, workholding etc.

                  I have already been advised to bury the cutter and not play with it, I know about getting the overarm support near the action.

                  When its up and running, i plan to cut some 4DP gears, gashing them first with a plain cutter to reduce wear on my new gear cutters.

                  As always, thanks in advance.
                  Dave
                  Here's the OP folks.

                  Dave, am I correct in saying or assuming that this is for cast iron and that you will be feeding upward using the knee?

                  Is this a large 4DP gear for a gear (gears?) for a steam traction engine model?

                  If I am wrong on both counts - forget it.

                  4DP is a big cut.

                  If cast iron that has had the "hard crust" removed on a lathe and if the cutter only has to cut the "core" soft iron, then no coolant is required - but use it as you wish.

                  I'd start off at a surface speed of about 50 feet/min and just feed it in by hand and "listen" to the machine as it will soon tell you if you are over-doing it and/or need to adjust your feed-rate, set-up or rigidity. You will soon "know" when you hit the "sweet spot". Try and "count" the hand-set revs/min on your feed and then set your mechanical tale/knee feed to be the same.

                  Too high a speed or too low a feed amy cause the ttool to "rub" and to "lose its edge" - which is a situation to avoid.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks all so far, yes they are for a traction engine, the largest gear is about 19" dia.

                    All 4DP 14-1/2PA.

                    Knackering the cutters is my main concern, time taken is my least concern. I generally cut cast dry so i'll stick with that.

                    Its the 'sweet spot' i dont know as its a new machine to me. If i had an idea of feedrate it could save my bacon, i'e if the gear is 1" wide it should take 1min per cut so FR is 1ipm. Trouble is i have no idea of a feed rate for cutters this size/shape.

                    Dave
                    If it does'nt fit, hit it.
                    https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
                    http://www.davekearley.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think A Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines put out by Cincinnati is _the_ book to have on horizontal milling. The 1916 version is available free here:
                      http://www.archive.org/details/treat...llin00cincrich

                      Lindsay (amongst others) also reprinted it.

                      However, the real deal is the version from around 1950 or so. Looks like copies on Abebooks for this edition start around $50 (might be harder to come by in the UK). But, at about twice the size of the 1916 version, I think it's worth the price.

                      Scott

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by applescotty
                        I think A Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines put out by Cincinnati is _the_ book to have on horizontal milling. The 1916 version is available free here:
                        http://www.archive.org/details/treat...llin00cincrich

                        Lindsay (amongst others) also reprinted it.

                        However, the real deal is the version from around 1950 or so. Looks like copies on Abebooks for this edition start around $50 (might be harder to come by in the UK). But, at about twice the size of the 1916 version, I think it's worth the price.

                        Scott
                        Yeah i got that book, its pretty good.

                        Dave
                        If it does'nt fit, hit it.
                        https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
                        http://www.davekearley.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, apart from 'suck it and see' i cant see any data regarding chipload anywhere.

                          Commonsense tells me that a 1/8" saw will have less CL than a 1" mill but how much can either take? Using my slide-rule speed/feed calculator i see CL's for endmills, slabmills and facemills. Would this cater for typical spiral slab mills and plain disc mills, but what about width? It suggests that for endmills under 1" dia then multiply CL by cutter dia. Would this apply to disc cutters?

                          Obviously all this depends on setup, but suppose a really good firm setup for the sake of discusion.

                          Say i've got a 4"x1" cutter with 36 teeth, mild [email protected]/min, using the sliderule gives me 0.010"/tooth, 95rpm, 34IPM feed. That sounds very heavy and beyond what my feed box can give!

                          Now say that cutter was 4"x1/8"x36t, using the calc's sub 1" advice, i see a CL of 0.0012" and about 4IPM which still seems high though available.

                          Even my old machinery's handbook mentions little of speeds etc for disc cutters.

                          Anyone got any advice here?

                          Thanks in advance
                          Dave
                          Last edited by Davek0974; 08-17-2009, 10:10 AM.
                          If it does'nt fit, hit it.
                          https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
                          http://www.davekearley.co.uk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have found a list from Niagara Cutters Ltd that gives a bit of info, but it also lists 'machineabilty figures' for each metal, BUT it does not say what to do with this figure! It looks like a factor multiplier, listing mild steel as a factor of 1.00, aluminium as 3.20 and high carbon steel as 0.09.

                            For saw slotting in mild steel it gives the following figures:- SFM=120-180, Depth=.200"-.750", Chipload=.001"-.004" So my .125"x4"x36T cutter example above would now be 114rpm, 4 IPM feed.

                            For plain milling in mild steel it gives SFM=120-150, Depth=.025"-.150", Chipload=.002"-.006" So my 1"x4"x36T cutter example above would now be 114rpm, 8.2 IPM feed.

                            These figures assume the lower end of all figures and do not use the machineability factor, whatever that is.

                            It seems that data on horizontal milling is very hard to find.

                            Any thoughts.

                            Dave
                            If it does'nt fit, hit it.
                            https://ddmetalproducts.co.uk
                            http://www.davekearley.co.uk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think you've got a good grasp of how to calculate the numbers you need from the Niagara recommendations. The machinability index should be applied to the SFM but not to the depth of cut or feed per tooth. If you apply the aluminum figures for instance, spindle rpm will go up, and consequently the table feed per minute will go up, even using the same feed per tooth. For harder to machine materials rpm is going the other direction.
                              .
                              "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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