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  • #31
    There's a lot more photos here showing how red it is.

    http://www.3aw.com.au/Sydney_Red_Dus...lectedImage=10

    Nev
    Nev.

    Comment


    • #32
      Evan,
      Which image is fabricated and which image is an accurate representation of the scene? I took this image using a Sinar F2, 4X5 format, NIKKOR 5.6 210mm lens at f8 with 1 deg forward tilt of the front standard at 1/30 sec using Portra 400NC film. I processed the negative and positive in my wet-lab. The point is, without having been there, one can easily manipulate the image using White Balance (and other tools e.g. color head filtration) to render a version that satisfies one's vision for that image but that's all it would be .... one's interpretation unless of course the individual was actually there to capture the image. So which image is close to being a true representation of the scene?

      Harold





      For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
      Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

      Comment


      • #33
        And here is some video from the BBC showing how red it is:

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/8270104.stm

        And more pictures sent in to the BBC from Aussies:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/8270107.stm

        On balance I think it's exactly as the OP said it was.

        Peter

        Comment


        • #34
          Here's a picture behind Techshop at night being lit with HPS lamps from our building and the neighbors (Plus a solitary metal halide) This is what it actually looks like at night:



          Heres what happens when I use the white balance tool in Aperture:



          The white balance tool can make images that dont appear right appear as they ought to if there was white light source. Pretty amazing really.

          Comment


          • #35
            I'll leave it to an Aussie to confirm this one, but I am under the impression that Oz uses the same red/amber/green traffic light arrangement as the US does. And while green is indeed a mix of the primaries yellow and blue, the camera will still record the light as green.

            Your image "corrected" image shifted the green light to blue, which shows it was overcorrected.
            I repeat, green traffic lights are really blue/green worldwide.The standard colour is called "traffic signal green" and is specified as 507 nm. Pure green is a considerably longer wave length at 567 nm.

            -In other words you're trying to convince me that the photographer (or editor) altered the photo, despite the fact that at least one other Aussie has taken two virtually identical photos in tone and color, and further trying to convince me that the photos I, myself, took under somewhat similar circumstances, are somehow wrong.
            The other photos are severely oversaturated so nothing can be determined from them. It's not the fault of the photographer but the camera. I have said nothing about your photos. There is nothing in them to compare with.

            Like John noted, when I've seen it myself, and two people in Australia tell me it's so, I tend to find that somewhat easier to believe than someone sitting on the opposite corner of the globe, denying it just because he doesn't think it looks 'real'
            Perhaps you forget that I have the best training in the colour reprographics industry to deal with precisely the problems that occur when trying to accurately reproduce colours. As for eye witnesses, have a look at the illusion I posted. The least reliable source for colour quality information is an eye witness. The eye and brain are far too adaptable.
            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

            Comment


            • #36
              Harold,

              The blue image has much less dynamic range than the green image. That is usually a result of post processing. The greener image has also been processed but not as much.

              To be precise, the blue image has 37784 colours and the green image has 50547 colours.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Evan
                Perhaps you forget that I have the best training in the colour reprographics industry to deal with precisely the problems that occur when trying to accurately reproduce colours. As for eye witnesses, have a look at the illusion I posted. The least reliable source for colour quality information is an eye witness. The eye and brain are far too adaptable.
                -In other words, typical Evan: "I'm the expert, I'm right, everyone else is wrong."

                When an "expert" tries to insist a thing is so, when multiple sources under multiple conditions say it is not so, one has to wonder about the "expert's" qualifications.

                Doc.
                Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Australia 1
                  Xerox 0

                  .
                  .

                  Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Evan


                    The eye and brain are far too adaptable.
                    It does help if they are connected .
                    .
                    .

                    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Evan
                      Harold,

                      The blue image has much less dynamic range than the green image. That is usually a result of post processing. The greener image has also been processed but not as much.

                      To be precise, the blue image has 37784 colours and the green image has 50547 colours.
                      The question remains and I repeat, "Which one is real Evan and which one did I spend less than 2 minutes changing the color?"
                      For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
                      Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Those images contain no lighting reference points and both have been processed. Going by the dynamic range, as I said, the blue one has had more processing since it has fewer colours. That is all I can say about it. There is no connection between comparing those two images and what I can determine about the OP image. The OP image contains abundant colour reference points of objects with a known colour.


                        When an "expert" tries to insist a thing is so, when multiple sources under multiple conditions say it is not so, one has to wonder about the "expert's" qualifications.
                        The only thing that I am insisting is that the original image is not a true representation of the scene it depicts. Nothing else. Go back and read again.

                        Finished reading? Since nobody is able to explain the discrepancies in the image other than myself there is so far no contradiction of what I said about it.

                        You are up to your usual tactic of writing that this or that was argued by me when it wasn't. You haven't a clue how to actually defend a point you are trying to make instead of attacking your opponent with misleading references to non existent events. I never said a word about your images yet you wrote
                        "and further trying to convince me that the photos I, myself, took under somewhat similar circumstances, are somehow wrong."

                        -In other words, typical Evan: "I'm the expert, I'm right, everyone else is wrong."
                        I haven't said that anybody is wrong. Only that the original image is not an accurate depiction of the scene, probably because the colour balance was warmed up for greater effect. If you were actually interested in arguing that point you would put forth arguments that explain how an accurate photo could have the discrepancies I noted. So far you haven't done that. That then brings up the question of your motives for even posting in this thread since you apparently have nothing of substance to contribute.

                        You wrote "They may indeed have 'enhanced' it a bit, but I strenuously doubt to the degree Evan suggests. Mainly because I doubt the green traffic light was actually blue as Evan shows" There you go again. It isn't blue in my image, the flare is blue/green, the same as the international standard for traffic lights.

                        Since I have explained why traffic lights are blue green then I take it to mean since that objection is removed you then agree that the image IS "enhanced" to the degree I have said it is.


                        There are other images in the news that are much more realistic.
                        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Evan
                          Since nobody is able to explain the discrepancies in the image other than myself there is so far no contradiction of what I said about it.
                          -Apart from some fifty-plus additional photos, by over a dozen separate photographers, and the minor fact your "corrected" view shows a green traffic light as blue, no, no contradiction at all. Nosiree bob.

                          There you go again. It isn't blue in my image, the flare is blue/green, the same as the international standard for traffic lights.
                          -Funny how in virtually every other photo of a traffic light out there, including in about 300 I personally took at night during a local bridge reconstruction (wherein I played heavily with everything from my white balance to various JPG compressions) there's not even the slightest hint of a blue halo to the green light.

                          But hey, what do I know. I've only been a semiserious amateur photographer for some twenty to twenty-five years now. Maybe after I take a couple of photocopier-repair classes I'll be able to diagnose digital camera exposure errors from half a world away.

                          Doc.
                          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            A direct answer.

                            Originally posted by hwingo
                            Evan,
                            Which image is fabricated and which image is an accurate representation of the scene? I took this image using a Sinar F2, 4X5 format, NIKKOR 5.6 210mm lens at f8 with 1 deg forward tilt of the front standard at 1/30 sec using Portra 400NC film. I processed the negative and positive in my wet-lab. The point is, without having been there, one can easily manipulate the image using White Balance (and other tools e.g. color head filtration) to render a version that satisfies one's vision for that image but that's all it would be .... one's interpretation unless of course the individual was actually there to capture the image. So which image is close to being a true representation of the scene?

                            Harold



                            Originally Posted by Evan
                            Harold,

                            The blue image has much less dynamic range than the green image. That is usually a result of post processing. The greener image has also been processed but not as much.

                            To be precise, the blue image has 37784 colours and the green image has 50547 colours.
                            Originally posted by hwingo
                            The question remains and I repeat, "Which one is real Evan and which one did I spend less than 2 minutes changing the color?"
                            Originally posted by Evan
                            Those images contain no lighting reference points and both have been processed. Going by the dynamic range, as I said, the blue one has had more processing since it has fewer colours. That is all I can say about it. There is no connection between comparing those two images and what I can determine about the OP image. The OP image contains abundant colour reference points of objects with a known colour.

                            .................................................. ........................

                            .................................................. .......................
                            .
                            Evan.

                            If I read that correctly, the gist of it can be summarised in the direct answer to hwingo's direct question as: "I don't know".

                            If that is the case - say so - directly - as required by hwingo.

                            If it is not the case - say so - again - directly - as required by hwingo.

                            I hope you will appreciate the irony of the apparent difficulty of getting that direct answer is analogous to drawing a tooth and that hwingo (Harold) is a Dentist.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Evan
                              and read again.

                              Finished reading? Since nobody is able to explain the discrepancies in the image other than myself there is so far no contradiction of what I said about it.
                              Who besides you are contradicting it anyway? porridge for one ?

                              .
                              .

                              Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'm about an 1&1/2 hours drive north of Sydney Australia. I'm not going to argue with anyone about the possibility of the photo shown being altered, but this morning there were times when it looked just like the photo shown. I had to hose the car windows down before I could leave for work this morning.
                                The fire alarms went off twice in our building before 10.00am because of the dust.
                                The dust was blown in from the west. I've never seen it as bad as this before. Late this afternoon, once the wind had dropped off everything outside had a red tinge to it. By the time I got home my car looked like I had done an hour on a dirt road.

                                bollie7

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