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  • Carbide insert ID?

    I have a dozen or so of these inserts, which I find work exceptionally well, giving good cutting pressure, well formed chips, and a finish which in some cases has turned out to be that "carbide polish".

    I don't have any idea who made them, or what they are, and would appreciate some general direction, anyhow.

    The picture shows 3 types I have "in stock". The one I am looking for is the MIDDLE one, with the side rake..

    I don't always use carbide, by any means, but when I have some nasty material to turn, I find that carbide is usually the right choice to avoid sharpening once per pass. These particular inserts seem to have worked the best of any so far.

    I don't know where they came from, nor what they are, and the number on their box is actually a lay-down threading insert. So that is no help.

    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  • #2
    The 1 in the middle looks like TNFM

    Does a fairly good job boring Non-Ferrous

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    • #3
      Maybe it really is a lay down threading insert?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by beanbag
        Maybe it really is a lay down threading insert?
        Not a chance.
        1601

        Keep eye on ball.
        Hashim Khan

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm taking Mama out to dinner tonight so I'll post some pictures of the TNFM inserts I have in the morning.

          I also have some quantities (100ea) in other inserts if any one want to do some "Insert Horse-Trading"

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          • #6
            The middle one is not a TNFM as the N stands for 0 degrees side clearance and Jerry states it has rake.If it was not for the side rake it would be a TNMM as it appears to be a pin fixing.
            Sandvik have triangular inserts with that type of chipbreaker but again they are not pin fixing.

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            • #7
              I would guess that insert only has one side, three corners, not the standard six associated with a negative tool holder. It also appears to have a .031 radius. The insert is a TP style: T for triangle and P for positive. If you can’t find this exact insert when you want to purchase new inserts, look for an insert that turns the negative rake tool holder into a positive geometry. This style works well on manual machines. They are slower in RPM and usually slightly under powered.
              I guess thats my two cents.

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              • #8
                I am looking specifically for the geometry of the middle one, since that has "turned out" better than any others. It's the ONLY insert with which I have ever gotten that "carbide polish" on the workpiece, and I like it.

                They also have had some abuses, and have not chipped.

                The one on the left is a flat-top, and while it actually works pretty well, it uses a lot of power, and doesn't give a good finish. Probably wants MORE power.

                The one on the right is really also a neutral, it has a minute flat top outboard of the chipbreaker. It acts more "positive" than the left one, but doesn't give a good finish, and chips if you look at it funny, due to the weak edge/chipbreaker

                I have tested other inserts besides the ones shown, but I happen to have "stock" of these, as opposed to onesy-twosy samples etc.

                Naturally, the one that worked the best I have no information whatsoever on. Someone may have handed me a partial tube of them, dunno.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Comment


                • #9
                  You don't state what the relief angle is, if any. That would help considerably in identification. The image does not really disclose this due to shadows.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Glenn Wegman
                    You don't state what the relief angle is, if any. That would help considerably in identification. The image does not really disclose this due to shadows.
                    VERY hard to measure..... about 12-14 deg, near as I can tell.
                    1601

                    Keep eye on ball.
                    Hashim Khan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jerry, that looks like a TPGW or TPGT. It's a TPG insert with a right-handed chipbreaker that is supposed to be fed towards the tailstock.
                      The asymmetric chipbreaker is vendor-specific.

                      I have some left-handed TPGR's (no through-hole) cermets, that are supposed to be fed towards the headstock:

                      Last edited by lazlo; 10-25-2009, 12:39 PM.
                      "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                      • #12
                        TNMM/ER type breaker. There are also TNMM/EL type chip breaker. The difference is they are directional. The ER is right hand cut only were the EL is left hand cut only. Ehe ER/EL chip breaker reference is for Valenite. I do not know if it is for other company brands.
                        I am saying TNMM because it looks like a negative insert, but I can't tell from the picture. If the side has relief then it is a positive style (C, D, P etc.). So the designation would be some variation of T'x'MM/ER, where x is the angle relief letter.
                        The left or right handedness depends upon your tool holder. If you use the same tool holder in the picture you will be feeding towards the headstock, right-handed.
                        Your finish is most likely a combination of the larger radius tip and the sharp cutting angle on the insert. The nose radius can have a effect on finish. The insert on the right is most likely a 1 (or a 0.5) which is why it is chipping on certain cuts. A 1, or less, tip on a positive insert tends to be weaker.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lazlo
                          Jerry, that looks like a TPGW or TPGT. It's a TPG insert with a right-handed chipbreaker that is supposed to be fed towards the tailstock.
                          Look again, it is for feed towards H/S. edge apparently on left. will not cut to right very well

                          Camera came up with low battery just when I was going to take the 'tie-breaker " picture.

                          Last edited by J Tiers; 10-25-2009, 02:35 PM.
                          1601

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            sorry, that insert reminded me of a thread cutting insert for VERY coarse threads. Those don't have the little tooth that sticks out sideways.

                            The relief angle sounds close to a P (11 degree) designation, but to be sure, hold this insert against another (upside down) P type insert to see if they are parallel.

                            I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at, but the "geometry" of the insert doesn't matter that much in terms of the surface finish. In particular, neither the side relief, nor what kind of hole it has in the middle matter much. More importantly:

                            How sharp is the edge (is it ground or molded)? Is the edge sharp enough that it digs into your fingernail or not?

                            What is the coating material? Looks like TiN, but could be some other stuff as well.

                            What is the rake at the cutting edge, and does it have a tiny land? This is the manufacturer-specific part, and typically shows up as a few letters and numbers after the 4 letter designation. Often called the chipbreaker designation.
                            From the blurry picture, it looks like one continuous slope.

                            I'm going to guess that a Kennametal insert of type xxGx -HP (chipbreaker) and KC730 (coating and grade) would give very similar cutting results.

                            I'm pretty sure your insert is neither Kennametal nor Iscar, as they like to print their grade on the side of the insert. Yours might be from some pissant dinky carbide company.
                            Last edited by beanbag; 10-25-2009, 04:57 PM.

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                            • #15
                              From the side shot I really don't see any side clearance angle, so it looks like a TNMM 322. If a Valenite, it's likely a ER PN2 chipbreaker in the outgoing 5515 or 5535 grade. If it's a Valenite it may have the grade on it, or may not because of the size. They usually mark only 4-size & up.

                              I say TNMM because if it were a TPxx style with the 11 degree side clearance angle it would most likely have a countersunk screw hole.

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