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  • #61
    You will be surprised at what is considered made in the USA. As the often cited Harley parts clearly stamped on the package Made in the USA, with the made in China showing on the part. Most of the value added in sin the name and packaging.

    So it qualifies as made in the USA!

    Consumer Alert: FTC Explains ‘Made in USA’ Standard To Confirm Consumer Confidence
    Text
    PDF

    Business Guide: Complying with the Made In USA Standard
    Text
    PDF

    Business Alert: Selling 'American-Made' Products? What Businesses Need to Know About Making Made in USA Claims
    Text
    PDF
    Glen
    Been there, probably broke it, doing that!
    I am not a lawyer, and never played one on TV!
    All the usual and standard disclaimers apply. Do not try this at home, use only as directed, No warranties express or implied, for the intended use or the suggested uses, Wear safety glasses, closed course, professionals only

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    • #62
      To make an actual on topic comment, I have been working with an Italian on some machine tool related design.

      One of the things I did was to look at the Tariffs on machine tools. There are Tariffs of what I remember to be about 15% on CNC machinery made in Europe. There are no such tariffs on Chinese goods. To me, this has the effect of supporting Chinese payscales and policies at the expense of the U.S. and rest of the developed world. One would think we would treat those in Europe better as supporting europe with living wages supports our own cause.

      In my view, the Chinese own the U.S. at this point due to the huge national debt and the current budget deficit. If the U.S. were to try to impose any sort of restrictions on China that they didn't approve, China would simply stop buying treasury securities and our economy would be finished. I am guessing when the Chinese push for the world to stop using the dollar as a reserve currency succeeds, that will be the end for the U.S. economically. They will have beaten us without firing a shot. The U.S. needs a strong military, but the expensive military adventures we are involved in now are a smokescreen allowing our true enemies to conquer this nation unopposed via financial means.

      --Cameron
      Last edited by ckelloug; 11-02-2009, 11:06 AM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by ckelloug
        In my view, the Chinese own the U.S. at this point due to the huge national debt and the current budget deficit. If the U.S. were to try to impose any sort of restrictions on China that they didn't approve, China would simply stop buying treasury securities and our economy would be finished. I am guessing when the Chinese push for the world to stop using the dollar as a reserve currency succeeds, that will be the end for the U.S. economically. They will have beaten us in a war we entered: entered on their side that is, not ours.
        The treasury debt is definitely a huge issue of our own making, but China exploiting peasants to provide a global sink hole for cheap labor is a world-wide problem: they've hollowed-out the heavy industry in the US, Canada, England, Australia, Germany...

        The Tianjin Co. Ltd, that manufactured the tainted drywall, is a subsidiary of the Knauf Plasterboard GmbH, a German company. Record and Sheffield Steel were outsourced to China, and then went out of business. SKF is outsourcing bearings to Asia. It's the same story in every major industrialized nation.

        But remember that the Chinese economy is built around making cheap copies of stuff. They need innovative products to copy, and that innovation isn't available domestically.
        "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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        • #64
          But remember that the Chinese economy is built around making cheap copies of stuff. They need innovative products to copy, and that innovation isn't available domestically.
          No, it isn't and it isn't even especially dependent on trade with the US.

          You need to study the real facts.


          Exports:
          Not China's Engine of Growth

          Skeptics about China's growth prospects most
          frequently question the sustainability of its
          export performance. In recent years, its exports
          and trade surplus have ballooned, leading to
          the common assumption that its growth is
          export-led and that limited global markets
          will curtail its expansion sooner rather than
          later. But this assumption is not supported by
          the data on the sources of Chinese growth,
          which are overwhelmingly domestic.
          In fact, a detailed study of each of Chinas
          ?ve macroeconomic booms and slowdowns
          since 1978 reveals that domestic shifts in
          investment and consumption have been
          responsible for Chinas growth (table 1). Even
          in recent years, the contributions to growth
          from the countrys trade surplus have had sec-
          ondary importance.
          The full report here:

          China’s Economic Rise—Fact and Fiction
          Albert Keidel, Michael Swaine, Stephen Voth , Gregory Foster , Harry Harding
          Wednesday, July 09, 2008 – Washington, D.C.

          http://www.carnegieendowment.org/eve...Detail&id=1151
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Evan
            No, it isn't and it isn't even especially dependent on trade with the US.

            China's explosive growth is the result of one thing - A generation ago the Chinese middle class consisted of people who lived in shanties and rode to work on a bicycle.

            When your GDP is a penny, it's pretty easy to double it.

            Gary
            Gary


            Appearance is Everything...

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            • #66
              It has been doubled many times. China is the largest market for luxury automobiles in the world. You should read the report.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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              • #67
                Recently I had to replace the water pump in my venerable 1984 Nissan. The first replacement was a remanufactured unit from FENCO (Ontario based).The main seal leaked even worse than the 25 year old pump it was to replace.

                The second unit came from Cardone (US based rebuilder). It came with a folded and mangled gasket.

                The last and finally working unit came from ParAut out of Japan.

                The first two units are a testament to the total lack of workmanship and attention to quality control that is rampant in the North American auto industry. All said and done is that workers only want to put in the time for the $XX per hour and the he-double-toothpicks with what they are producing.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Evan
                  It has been doubled many times.

                  You clearly miss the point, that being that no economy can double in growth forever.


                  Originally posted by Evan
                  China is the largest market for luxury automobiles in the world. You should read the report.
                  ???? Yeah, that's interesting, and relevance ?


                  Gary
                  Gary


                  Appearance is Everything...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    You clearly miss the point, that being that no economy can double in growth forever.
                    Of course not. The GDP of China was never a "penny" though. The economic policies of the central government have been exceptionally successful and have been a source of embarrassment to free market economists. Central control has always been assumed to be a death sentence for prosperity and the Soviet Union is held as an example.

                    My point is that China isn't solely or even mostly dependent on it's trading relationship with the USA. Many in the US seem to think that all actions taken by the government in China are aimed at tearing down the economic structure of the US in a form of economic warfare. That just isn't true. China is doing what they do in spite of the US, not because they are making every economic decision with the US as some sort of target. The government of the US is constantly looking for a scapegoat on which to blame it's economic failings and the obvious target is China because of the widely held perception in the US that China is an economic enemy.

                    That is a ludicrous and self centred misconception that the US government depends on to lead the general population of the US into believing that the problems of the US have an exterior cause. It is not held by the people with the money. One does not make massive investments in the infrastructure and manufacturing capability of one's economic enemy. The only reason to do so is the underpinning of American values: Profit is King and anybody can become a millionaire if they work hard enough.

                    It turns out that those values are also held by the Chinese and they are proving to be extremely industrious in pursuing that same philosophy. It isn't a race or a war but the Chinese are never going to pass up such an opportunity when it is handed to them on a greenback lined platter.
                    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Of course, no economy can double forever.

                      But right now, China has moved out of being based on Exports, solely.

                      It is, as Evan points out, a viable economy in its own right, and it makes a LOT of stuff for internal consumption, as well as being the biggest IMPORTER of all kinds of stuff, including many, many, luxury goods.

                      China currently is a bigger market for automobiles and trucks than the USA. We are now number 2.
                      They are the number 1 or 2 markets, worldwide, for Rolls Royces, Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Tiffany, and many other luxury brands. They are Number 1 market for Buick, probably will hit Number 1 this year for Cadillac.

                      They consume FAR more steel in China than they export- as is the case with many of their products. As this happens more and more, their export markets become less and less important to chinese companies. They dont care as much about the US market, because, relatively speaking, we are buying LESS- as we are broke. While they are buying MORE.
                      of everything.

                      China buys Billions worth of US made Caterpillar and John Deere and Boeing products every year.
                      They buy between 100 and 150 US made Haas machine tools every month.
                      They buy Trumpf and DMG and other high end german machine tools that we, the USA, are too cheap to buy.

                      While we werent looking, the world changed. The middle class in China, the people who are buying $200,000 condos and new cars and fancy smart phones- its as big as the entire population of the USA. If they double the middle class, which is quite possible, their market would be double ours, actually more, because we have lots of poor working folks who ARENT buying new Cadillac Escalades.

                      Sure, they still make plenty of cheap crap- but their population is so big they can also make, and import, lots of better stuff as well.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by lazlo
                        Apparently the Canadian content was pushed by the Big 3, because they had a lot of parts made in Canada.
                        It is much more than that. Since 1965 the Auto Pact has treated US and Canadian production as the same. The "Auto Pact" has been around for a long time it is the first 'free trade' type agreement the US and Canada got into.

                        It created a unified US / Canadian automotive industry.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          The big picture is you can't keep two thirds of the world in poverty in order to maintain your own standard of living. In the end a more productive world will be to the benefit of everybody. Unfortunately some eggs will have to be broken in order to make the omelette. You either try to maintain your privileged niche in the past or you find a new sustainable niche in the future. Go with the flow and learn to swim or drown. Anybody ever heard of the luddites.

                          Phil

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by rancherbill
                            It is much more than that. Since 1965 the Auto Pact has treated US and Canadian production as the same. The "Auto Pact" has been around for a long time it is the first 'free trade' type agreement the US and Canada got into.
                            Wow, never heard of that! Signed by Lyndon Johnson, no less (who's a legendary figure in Central Texas -- he was the Congressman for Texas's 10th district = Austin).
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by philbur
                              The big picture is you can't keep two thirds of the world in poverty in order to maintain your own standard of living. In the end a more productive world will be to the benefit of everybody. Unfortunately some eggs will have to be broken in order to make the omelette. You either try to maintain your privileged niche in the past or you find a new sustainable niche in the future. Go with the flow and learn to swim or drown. Anybody ever heard of the luddites.

                              Phil

                              USA will kick butt but socialist policy will be a step backwards. (im keeping this short)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Evan
                                Of course not. The GDP of China was never a "penny" though. The economic policies of the central government have been exceptionally successful and have been a source of embarrassment to free market economists.
                                Your points are good and valid (except for the "anybody can become a millionaire if they work hard enough" part)

                                My point, is generally, that no economy can sustain rapid expansion. By the time it's popular to talk about the newest "powerhouse" of economic growth, it's over. So I can't get gaga over China and the they're like amazing crap. Cases in point: Japan, Pacific Rim 1980's (Tiger Economies.) Mexico, mid 1990's; NAFTA, low wages, growing middle class, much the same things said, buy the Peso, buy Mexican IPO's. Now tourists are getting their heads cut off down there. Early 1990's Russia, former eastern block countries, same stuff, different part of the world.


                                China's got alot of stuff going for them, but alot against them too. Devalued Yuan (either intentional or otherwise) is making them reliant on exports for much of their GDP. (Their GDP has dropped conspicuously during the past year's global recession.) Recalcitrant foreign policy only puts them at odds with the rest of the global community. Corruption is rampant, they're been building so fast in recent years pollution and over building is becoming a problem, (not too impressive an example of central economic policy, especially considering they had our history of mistakes to learn from) Not to mention the high quality stamp of approval on Chinese drywall and baby formula, not too good for return customers.


                                With "penny" I mean any growth from an economy starting with a minuscule GDP is going to disproportionately compared to other, previously developed countries. As many stocks display stratospheric growth upon initial public offerings which can't be maintained. Google, for instance, I think it'll be a long while, if ever, for that the stock doubles again.. Remember, it was less than 40 years ago Nixon visited China.

                                Gary
                                Gary


                                Appearance is Everything...

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