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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    Taken as given you show that several of the wealthiest people in China are party members.

    You also wrote "millionaires". You have provided no reference, not even yourself ( ) for that statement.
    All of the wealthiest people in China are party members. That's not a coincidence. China is a Communist, Totalitarian government. Their weird version of "Capitalism" is just their way of waging war on the western world.

    By the way, Diana Chen is a millionaire -- I just skipped down the Forbes list to make a point. Did you expect me to provide citations for everyone on of the Forbes list?

    I'm not going to do your Wikipedia search for you. That's your job not to mention your hobby. You are an excellent example of the herd mentality.
    I don't think you get the joke Evan. Dennis has been an adoring admirer since he visited you a couple of months ago, and jumps in to save you every time you put your foot in your mouth. A fact that many here have noted. Dennis coined the phrase "Herd Mentality" in the Drywall thread as a defense mechanism to indicate everyone except you and him.

    What your real problem is is that I make you feel inadequate because I don't have a degree but still manage to show you up in these "conversations" that you so foolishly pursue. This detracts from the value of that degree on the wall in your mind and that is the same a debasing your own self worth.
    LOL Evan! You ask for citations for the statement I made that all the wealthy in China are Communist Party members, and I did. So your reaction is to feel insecure about dropping out of college?

    I didn't learn about China while I was getting degrees in engineering -- I learned about China by reading the paper. You should try it sometime.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Taken as given you show that several of the wealthiest people in China are party members. Please explain how that differs from the USA?

    You also wrote "millionaires". You have provided no reference, not even yourself ( ) for that statement.

    Read the thread Evan. I'm surprised the Google Child can't verify those citations. Of course, that wouldn't support your adoration of China
    I'm not going to do your Wikipedia search for you. That's your job not to mention your hobby. You are an excellent example of the herd mentality.

    The truth is I really don't believe that. What your real problem is is that I make you feel inadequate because I don't have a degree but still manage to show you up in these "conversations" that you so foolishly pursue. This detracts from the value of that degree on the wall in your mind and that is the same a debasing your own self worth.

    Your reactions such as repeatedly pointing out that I was employed as a photocopier technician amply confirm that you are attempting, unsuccessfully in your own mind, to repair your loss of self esteem.

    I suggest you take the degree down and put it away. Try to do the same in your own mind and base your self worth on your current accomplishments and abilities. Try posting something of your machining work instead of stalking me and generally disrupting the board. You might be surprised at what you find and I suspect it will reduce your stress level.

    That will be 5 cents please.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    Originally posted by Lazlo
    All the millionaires/billionaires are Communist Party Officials (or family members).
    You are giving YOURSELF as a reference? That really rich. I can't believe you just did that.
    Read the thread Evan. I'm surprised the Google Child can't verify those citations. Of course, that wouldn't support your adoration of China

    Going down the list of China's richest men, according to Forbes:
    Rong Yiren was the Vice-President of the People's Republic of China from 1993 to 1998 and was heavily involved with the opening of the Chinese economy to western investment. It is from this second accomplishment, when the western media coined him "The Red Capitalist".

    After the death of Mao Zedong and the end of Cultural Revolution, Deng Xiaoping appointed Rong as an advisor for the economic opening of China. He set up the China International Trust and Investment Corp., or CITIC, in 1978, which was responsible for much of the initial western investment in China.

    Rong retired in 1998 and died on October 26, 2005. He is listed as one of the richest men in Asia, with family fortune of $1.9 billion. he was a member of Communist Party of China since 1985

    Larry Yung Chi-kin
    (son of Rong Yiren) was the chairman of CITIC Pacific, a Hong Kong-based conglomerate. According to Forbes Magazine, he is one of the wealthiest people in mainland China, with a personal net worth of $2.2 billion US dollars as of March, 2007.

    Yung was born in Shanghai to a business man Rong Yiren, who later became the vice president of China during the 1990s.

    After the turbulent years, (Vice President and Father) Rong Yiren came to good terms with Deng Xio Peng who came into power after Mao. With the support of the Chinese government and its capital, Yung Chi Kin moved to Hongkong and started businesses with the Chinese government as major shareholder, and he himself subsequently became one of the richest people in China.

    His family's tie to the Communist Party of China earned his nickname "the Red Capitalist."

    Lu Guanqiu
    . In 1969, Lu founded a farm machinery plant with the assistance of six others. Despite its initial capitalization of 4000 yuan, the company has developed into one of the 520 national key enterprises and 120 pilot enterprise groups under the State Council. It has nearly 10 billion yuan capital, 13,000 staff and workers, state-level technology center, state-level labs, and post-doctoral scientific research work stations. In 2001, Wanxiang Group had business incomes of 8.636 billion yuan, profits of 706 million yuan, and profits from exports of 178 million yuan.

    Recent Career Data
    Chairman of the Board, Wanxiang Group Company
    1998—2003 Deputy, 9th NPC
    1992—1997 Delegate, 14th CPC, National Congress
    1987—1992 Delegate, 13th CPC, National Congress
    <- When his little company suddenly skyrocketed....
    1969 Founder, Ningwei Commune Farm Machinery Plant

    http://books.google.com/books?id=Cvz...age&q=&f=false

    Diana Chen. The Chinese state awarded monopolies for international trading. For example, the Pioneer Iron and Metals group was founded by Diana Chen, her gradfather, Lu Dong, was China’s metallurgy minister. With this connection, Chen was able to gain exclusive contracts to provide imported iron ore to several state-owned enterprises, making her company one of the largest private importers of iron ore into China, and making her into one of the nation’s richest
    tycoons.



    ...and so on...
    Last edited by lazlo; 11-03-2009, 09:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    I will give you an example of how pervasive the "If you ain't with us you must be against us" mentality is.

    For many years Bill Gates refused to make contributions to either the Republican or Democratic parties. He is apolitical and didn't wish to support either. It became apparent that this was having a negative impact on Microsoft in regards to rule and lawmaking in Washington because of the perception that if you aren't my friend you must be the friend of my enemy. That of course is nonsense but it forced a change on the part of Microsoft to make political contributions of approximately equal value to both parties.

    The vast majority of people cannot understand that it is possible to live without being a follower of some common creed. Since they cannot comprehend being entirely independent and unbound by convention already established by somebody they regard as a leader it is impossible for them to grasp that someone else may actually think that way.

    Instead they automatically make the assumption that if you don't agree with me then you must belong to the other side. It is inconceivable that there may be room for independent thought that doesn't conform to either or even any of the possible positions that they recognize.

    Of course the lack of understanding of what constitutes evidence is pervasive through all levels of education. This is reflected by adages in common use such as "Where there is smoke there is fire" when in reality where there is smoke there is smoke of undetermined origin until proven otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    Even if it were true it doesn't make me pro Chinese. There is an almost overwhelming tendency here and in most situations to try to characterize things as black/white. It is never that simple.
    The same herd did the same thing to me. I was accused of being soft on China because I was adamant about the need for proper science in the drywall business I was not a knee-jerk China basher that that was evil. It had nothing to do with China and everything to do with solid provable evidence and repeatable verification.

    It didn't stop there. I was also accused of supporting you when in fact you and I were supporting a common idea - that speculation isn't worth the time to think it up, and that the principles of good science were missing from the drywall hysteria (and then the melamine debacle). What I found particularly idiotic is that you were not blamed for supporting me - clearly you are the great Satan and I am your pawn

    I came away believing not everyone on the BBS is capable of deep thinking, and some should never leave the shallow end of the gene pool

    Leave a comment:


  • gmatov
    replied
    I've said it before and elsewhere, but how many of the Chinese products were, at least initially, sold here BY Chinese companies?

    So far as I know, everything that was imported here, as was everything that was imported from Japan in the 50's, 60's was imported by an AMERICAN importer who saw an advantage.

    Mitsubishi was a Chrysler import. Iaccoca loved it until Mitsubishi decided to sell their cars directly. Then he cried that they had a 1500 buck advantage. Malcolm Bricklin imported the Honda Civic in the 60's. It took sales from US made cars. BFD. Malcolm made tons of money. All legal.

    This is nothing new at all. There were World Meets of industrial capability in the 1800's. Krupp Steel sent their best, Sheffield, Birmingham, etc., and the best show got sales from foreign companies. Alfred Krupp was said to have taken out a pocket knife and whittled a sliver from a competitor's entry.

    We'll never be competitive if all we do is import slum. We were as good as any in the world, better than most, in days long gone. Short sighted managers with bonuses in mind sold all US mfg down the River to make their bonuses.

    Rebuild the US mfg base? Very little chance. We don't teach enough of our young to DO mechanical things. We all want our kids to be PROFESSIONALS, and it seems that all we have made are professional burger flippers.

    Don't get me wrong, as to the US young. They can learn to lay block, side houses, lay shingles, work concrete.

    Given a training program, I think you could train the same who will work with their hands to run any machine you can throw them at. Some of you are proof of this. Problem is, where the hell they gonna work when they become aces at this game?

    Cheers,

    George

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Even if it were true it doesn't make me pro Chinese. There is an almost overwhelming tendency here and in most situations to try to characterize things as black/white. It is never that simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tony Ennis
    replied
    You need to study some history.
    Just because we are imperfect doesn't somehow mean it's somehow ok for the Chinese to be dong what they are doing. Everything we do that's bad, the Chinese do worse due to the lack of political opposition. Further, I wasn't commenting on which country is good or bad so much as that China's ascendency isn't surprising at all because their government allows and practices totally unchecked social and economic manipulation.

    You do come off as being anti-American, by the way, Evan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    But you are quick to take up the chinese assertions that it is all a plot against china. Quick to "blame America first".
    Huh? That isn't something I am familiar with.

    perhaps you are not pro-chinese. Maybe you are simply anti-American.
    That is closer. I am "Anti American Foreign Policy".

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Evan, don't blame Tony for that, as your quote presently does.

    it's ME not Tony.

    I'm not particularly good at reading minds, it only works sometimes...... Your posts looked, and still DO look one-sided on the issue, demanding unreasonable proof, and totally discounting the proven history of bogus, adulterated, and poisoned goods, which makes claims more credible, and the very apparent association of problems with specific companies which happen to be chinese.

    You have focused on accusing us of blaming" the chinese" when some at least have been at pains to mention that it is specific companies.

    And you have refused to believe "association" or 'correlation", apparently asserting it has no merit and no meaning.

    But you are quick to take up the chinese assertions that it is all a plot against china. Quick to "blame America first".

    I don't know what you think. I only see what you post here. And it certainly seems that you take the position of a "fellow traveler" with the chinese on most matters when you have a choice.

    perhaps you are not pro-chinese. Maybe you are simply anti-American.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Not so fast. A government that doesn't have to obey its own laws, that has no political opposition/watchdogs, that doesn't value human life, that rapes the environment unlike any other, and that sets monetary policy based upon what gives it the most advantage can do amazing things.

    In short, so what.
    You need to study some history. Specifically US history. I'll supply you some key words: "Love Canal", "Hanford iodine", "nuclear testing", "agent orange", "anti personnel mines", "Cluster bomb failure rate", "nerve agents", "extinct US species", "missing plutonium", "missing nuclear weapons", "napalm", "Kent State", "ground water contamination", "teratogenic pesticides", "dead livestock", "fish kills", "acid rain", "US coal consumption"...

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by Tony
    Its the overall tone and defiant stance that (as far as we can tell by reading your postings) there is nothing wrong with chinese anything until the exact and detailed mechanism of the alleged problem with the material has been exhaustively researched, completely explained, and proven to be the exact and detailed problem in each individual separate case.

    YOU are not satisfied with the association of problems exclusively with THAT drywall, or THAT cough syrup, or THAT toothpaste, or THAT pet food.

    Oh, no, to satisfy the stalling tactics of Mahmoud AbedinijEvan, the material must be regarded as perfect, totally without faults, and must continue to be used as fast as possible, until the problem with each separate tube, bottle, sheet or whatever has been submitted in quintuplicate to representatives of Mr AbedinijEvan.

    bah..... I'll prove nothing..... don't even ask. We can all SEE which way the wind blows, by watching the bamboo.
    That's a bad mistake you are making. To think that because I am not sympathetic to your ideas in no way means that I am sympatheic to the ones you disagree with. It's a very common mistake made by even very intelligent people but nonetheless, it is a mistake.

    When I support something you won't be in doubt and it won't be by some oblique reference. You should have already figured that out by now.

    Demanding unambiguous scientific evidence for something that has the potential to affect the lives of entire nations of people isn't unreasonable in my view. It is the only approach that is in keeping with the premise that such actions be based in truth rather than inuenndo and propaganda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally Posted by Evan
    References?


    http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...5&postcount=45

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lazlo
    Almost all of the Chinese billionaires are Communist Party Officials, and/or National People’s Congress delegates (China’s rubber-stamp parliament).
    The first Chinese billionaire was “Red capitalist” Rong Yiren, the former China vice-president. His son "Larry" is also a billionaire -- the 6th wealthiest man in China.

    The few billionaires who aren't party officials, are from eminent communist party families. Diana Chen, who founded the Pioneer Iron and Metals group (the largest ore company in China) is the granddaughter of Lu Dong, China’s metallurgy minister.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lazlo
    Lu Guanqiu, the CEO of Wanxiang Group, who recently bought Ford's driveline division.

    The Chinese government likes to portray him as a peasant worker who worked his way up to riches, but he was a delegate (a member of Parliament) to the 9th, 13th and 14th CPC National People's Congresses
    You are giving YOURSELF as a reference? That really rich. I can't believe you just did that.

    On top of that it wasn't just billionaires that you referred to. it was

    Originally posted by Robert
    All the millionaires/billionaires are Communist Party Officials (or family members).

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by Tony Ennis
    Evan:


    Not so fast. A government that................. rapes the environment unlike any other,......................
    Wait, don't bring Russia into this......... The chinese can't hold a candle to Russia in pure evil pollution. They produce a lot of volume, but Russia produced really, really bad stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan
    References?
    http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...5&postcount=45
    Originally posted by lazlo
    Almost all of the Chinese billionaires are Communist Party Officials, and/or National People’s Congress delegates (China’s rubber-stamp parliament).
    The first Chinese billionaire was “Red capitalist” Rong Yiren, the former China vice-president. His son "Larry" is also a billionaire -- the 6th wealthiest man in China.

    The few billionaires who aren't party officials, are from eminent communist party families. Diana Chen, who founded the Pioneer Iron and Metals group (the largest ore company in China) is the granddaughter of Lu Dong, China’s metallurgy minister.
    Originally posted by lazlo
    Lu Guanqiu, the CEO of Wanxiang Group, who recently bought Ford's driveline division.

    The Chinese government likes to portray him as a peasant worker who worked his way up to riches, but he was a delegate (a member of Parliament) to the 9th, 13th and 14th CPC National People's Congresses

    Leave a comment:

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