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i need a countersink, what type?

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  • John Stevenson
    replied
    I found the single flute MA Ford type to be faster cutting with less effort that the multi flutes, some of the multi flutes required a great deal of effort on the handle to actually cut.

    One thing in my favour is that I have a very rigid twin spindle drill and one spindle is powered by a geared motor with tooth belt drive to give one speed of 70 rpm, no way this puppy slips.



    The very load speed with immense torque and positive drive means it will run these 32mm [ 1-1/4" ] countersinks straight into laser cut 12mm thick steel plates very quickly. As I remarked in another post this was a sub con job and there were literally 1,000's of holes over a period of time.
    The part was the base of bar stools that were screwed to the floor, 3 or 4 holes in each in quantities of 500 at a time



    If I could have found a countersink any better, at any cost i would have.

    .

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  • psomero
    replied
    i have a couple MA Ford single and multi flute countersinks that i picked up from enco and have been using for several years with good results.

    most of them are pretty big and get used to make countersunk holes for flat head cap screws. a 3 fluter seems to work good on aluminum with little or no chatter.


    avoid the cheapie hardware store hss 6 flute ones like the plague. they usually have a 1/4" shank and love to snap after about a dozen uses or so...


    i tend to use single flute CS's for hand deburring work. i have one 3/4" cs that fit perfectly into a piece of DOM 4130 tubing, so i silver soldered it in and that sees probably 75% of the hand deburring that happens in my shop.

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  • Evan
    replied
    I just looked up Severance and they are still in business (since 1941) and they still make the exact same products.

    Here is what they have to say about countersinks:

    1, 4 or 6 Flutes?
    In general, a six-fluted countersink
    will remove more material per
    revolution than will a four-flute or
    single-flute tool. While the single-
    flute countersink is slow-cutting, it
    will work well in a non-rigid
    machining setup.
    Four flutes
    provide more chip clearance than
    six. This is a consideration in
    machining stringy materials such as
    some plastics and non-ferrous
    alloys. Other factors being equal,
    the six flute countersink will give
    more service life than the four-flute
    tool because the cutting load is
    distributed over more edges.
    http://www.severancetools.ca/images/countersinks.pdf

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  • lane
    replied
    That is because it is a Severance brand . That is the only multi flute brand that is good. Yes I have a few of their 6 flute design. But all in all the single flute M.A. Ford is the best. And besides I know you work in a lot of aluminun . The work superb in that . But for all around I still say single flute.
    Last edited by lane; 11-04-2009, 06:28 PM.

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  • Evan
    replied
    I have a 4 flute countersink that has never needed sharpening and still works well. I used it for 4 years working on aircraft and in my shop ever since. That's 38 years now. It's indestructible.

    I just had a look at it. The brand is Severance.
    Last edited by Evan; 11-04-2009, 05:48 PM.

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  • lane
    replied
    I prefer the single flute type First then the one with the hole. Multi flute counter sinks are just a get buy want last long.

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  • Evan
    replied
    I use multiflute countersinks, 4 flute and 6 flute. I have never had good results from the "zero" flute or single flute types. I use a LOT of flush head cap screws for assembling my designs both steel and aluminum. For those I use six flute countersinks of the correct size for the head in question. To seat a flush head cap screw properly the hole is countersunk until the tool produces a straight edged hole of perhaps .020" depth at the top. This brings the head of the screw flush to the surface. The other types of countersinks don't do this well or at all in my experience.

    The main secret to clean edges with no chatter is to clamp the work and to use a machine that doesn't have a lot of play in the spindle (cheap drill press= chatter). Low rpm and good pressure are also important. When countersinking use a cutting oil. It makes a big difference.

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  • John Stevenson
    replied
    Snowmans reply is very valid as the insert ones have the insert standing proud and there is no support for the rest of the body.
    They are designed for fixed spindle / clamped work, fine with a Bridgy and vise but useless in a drill press.

    Some while ago I had literally 1,000 of countersinks to do as an ongoing subcon job, some up to 30mm diameter.

    I went thru J&L book and bought one of each type I though would work best, probably spent $200 to $300.
    Single flute. the ones with holes in, multi flute, tipped, TiN coated, solid carbide in single and multi flute, the whole dogs dinner, some were $50 a pop but I reckoned if i could save time I'd save money.

    At the end of the day the $14 M.A. Ford single flute TiN coated out cut and out lasted all the others, in fact still using some of them to this day.

    .

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  • snowman
    replied
    Inserts are good for CNC or Mill work only, they will not take the abuse and chatter of a drill press setup without killing carbide inserts.

    For me, it depends on the application. Single flute for drill press work, multi for mill.

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  • Doozer
    replied
    Another vote for the MA Ford single flute countersinks. Simply awesome. No chatter ever.

    --Doozer

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  • andy_b
    replied
    well i'm anti-metric, so it looks like 82 it is!

    andy b.

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  • bobw53
    replied
    82 degrees for american
    90 degrees for metric

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    What are the standard degree of c/s? I know in A/C sheetmetal a 100 degree is used and there are others.

    Are there different angles in imperial and metric?

    Are they varied like drill bits? Can't remember the angles off hand right now

    Leave a comment:


  • andy_b
    replied
    the single-flute ones at Enco are MA Ford, so that sounds like a good choice. they are offered in 60, 82, 90, 100 and 120 degree tapers. is one taper a better choice for general use? i use them for deburring, so in that case i guess it doesn't matter all that much, but i also use them to countersink holes for machine screws and such. i have no idea what a standard machine screw taper is.

    andy b.

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  • Walter
    replied
    I can't comment on the single flute cutters, but the six flute HSS work fine if... you run them slow (low rpm), and clear the chips, they will pack quickly. We constantly use them for sinking 10-32 screws in die bases. Oh, and as always, quality cutters >> cheap stuff. MA Ford is nice stuff

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