Surface grinder help

[Mcgyver]

Acer and Sharp are also Taiwanese companies. But they outsource most of their castings to mainland China.

But as you say, Acer and Sharp (and Feeler) quality is way better than mainland China. I haven't seen a Chevalier in the flesh, but someone sold a Chevalier benchtop tool and cutter grinder on PM, and it had a cracked casting. Looked like a casting flaw, and not a impact. Hard to make a sweeping assessment based on a single sample, but you don't see Monarchs with cracked castings

funnily enough, I'm long on Chevalier tool & cutter grinders right now having both the bench model and the floor model (a K O Lee clone). Floor model is being scraped as part of complete restoration; its attraction is a motorized work head so it doubles up as a light cylindrical grinder....which is why it was added

The bench model is imo a well made machine, it retailed for like 5-7k or something like that....point being it wasn't a harbor freight or busy bee item. Now its self serving of me as my bench top will soon be for sale (or maybe it should keep it as a designated endmill grinding station lol), but it really is a nice machine. The only complaint i have is that in one spot a hole is drilled in a slightly incorrect position so that a tooth rest adjustment doesn't work properly....its those little things that make you shake your head; can't see that getting through say Cincinnati's QC check

[websterz]

Don't forget Gallmeyer & Livingston. Good quality AMERICAN MADE iron! I have a 1951 model #25 that I got on Craigslist for $375. I called the company with my serial number and they provided the history of the machine including the rebuilds and upgrades that had been done at the factory. She runs like a dream!!

[lazlo]

Chevalier is made in Taiwan, or at least was. That definitely makes it an import but stuff from Taiwan is a world of difference from stuff from China.

Acer and Sharp are also Taiwanese companies. But they outsource most of their castings to mainland China.

But as you say, Acer and Sharp (and Feeler) quality is way better than mainland China. I haven't seen a Chevalier in the flesh, but someone sold a Chevalier benchtop tool and cutter grinder on PM, and it had a cracked casting. Looked like a casting flaw, and not a impact. Hard to make a sweeping assessment based on a single sample, but you don't see Monarchs with cracked castings

[Mcgyver]

Am I correct that Chevalier and Acer are both imports?

Cheers
Mac.

Chevalier is made in Taiwan, or at least was. That definitely makes it an import but stuff from Taiwan is a world of difference from stuff from China.

Quality on Chavelier is so-so imo. I've got one apart now for rebuilding and i think i'll end up with a very decent machine, better than what i started with and worth doing, but it is not the same quality as my Norton grinder.

I often wonder what guys mean they say the quality is good or bad....so i'll tell you what i mean . There's a spot where a hole is drilled and tapped half way off the boss its supposed to be centred on, there's a pulley on a counter shaft thats way to loose a fit so ends up with quite a wobble, little things like that. Spindle uses P3 bearings which are so-so for a grinder, no measurable run out though. Bearings were from a first world manufacturer which probably should be a red light/green light on deciding if a grinder is quality enough to get a spot in your shop.. I think the spindle is quiet but haven't eliminated all motor vibration yet so its hard to tell. Then again, this grinder is probably 10-20 years old so these hints at pedigree may or may not still apply

So Taiwan isn't Canada, England or the States, but its not China either where sometimes you're left wondering whats this casting really made of

[lazlo]

Acer and Sharp are also imports correct?

Yes, that's right.

[motorcyclemac]

Chevalier is definitely Chinese. I dealt with one that had electrical problems, could not get parts from Chevalier. We ended up scrapping it.

Thanks for answering that..

Acer and Sharp are also imports correct?

Thanks
Mac.

[ulav8r]

Chevalier is definitely Chinese. I dealt with one that had electrical problems, could not get parts from Chevalier. We ended up scrapping it.

[quasi]

mine are fine, no problems what so ever. It also does not have an oil pump, all oiling is manual. It is sort of a base model Harig, badged by Powermatic but made for them by Harig.

[Mcruff]

What was bad about it? Did the ways corrode from the grinding grit?

I have a Harig 6x12 (plain, hardened ways) and the table is hydrodynamically floated. As in, if you turn off the power to the oil pump, the table sags down and bad things happen.
I think that's a big reason for Harig's reputation for accuracy. But I don't know how hydrodynamic ways work with Turcite/Teflon ways? Isn't that redundant?

Yes they would get embedded with grit and dust over a period of a year or so. They also never had the feel of hard Chromed or tool steel ways and personally I think it was from this.
My understanding was that Harig actually built these machines to be used for grinding graphite electrodes for EDM in a confined room with a large dust collector system.

[Bolster]

Wow, I think I recognize that SG. It looks very similar to the one at our college machine shop, except I remember the wheel that raises and lowers being oriented 90 degrees. The prof just helped me grind down a slightly-too-wide hardened steel wood plane blade with it the other day; it worked like a charm. He told me the SG could pretty easily hold tolerances of two tenths or so. Maybe I can remember to get a photo of it and read the name. If it's the same brand, its brother has been doing yeoman's duty at our local college (in the hands of abusive students no less) for many a year and it's still performing great.

I figure any machine that can take student abuse for 20 years and still perform to spec is a decent quality machine!

[motorcyclemac]

I did quite a bit of research on used surface grinders today. Everyone is right here.. There are a LOT of them on ebay and other vendor sites. $1500 will get a good reasonable used machine of high quality. Seemingly a Harig or Brown and Sharp or DoAll is the cream of the crop really. They can be had used and refurbished for reasonable cost. I would much rather pay $1500-2000 or more for a very good quality brand name (some with DRO) than to buy a pig and a poke with this Harvel locally. I cannot see this one run..and if I was going to buy one with out a test drive...I would rather buy it from a reputable machine broker with a return policy.

I did find a Brown and Sharp 6x12 that had been totally refurbed, painted, all new bearings, rewired, new wheel, and included a brand new Accurite for $4500. It looked all brand new. I might be inclined to do something like that and get something of known quality.

There are some new machines like Chevalier and Acer that are somewhat reasonably priced for new. I know nothing about the new machines. I have run Harig, Brown and Sharp and a Bridgeport that was made by Harig. I would be more comfortable owning one of those I think vs a machine I don't know.

Am I correct that Chevalier and Acer are both imports?

Cheers
Mac.

[lazlo]

Harig also made a version of there 6x12 that had Teflon coated ways, what a piece of crap that was.

What was bad about it? Did the ways corrode from the grinding grit?

I have a Harig 6x12 (plain, hardened ways) and the table is hydrodynamically floated. As in, if you turn off the power to the oil pump, the table sags down and bad things happen.
I think that's a big reason for Harig's reputation for accuracy. But I don't know how hydrodynamic ways work with Turcite/Teflon ways? Isn't that redundant?

[Mcruff]

Harig also made a version of there 6x12 that had Teflon coated ways, what a piece of crap that was.

[lazlo]

I remember talking to a guy who used to be a machinery dealer up around Chicago years ago about Bridgeport's attempt at surface grinders. I vaguely recall that he didn't think much of them.

Bridgeport owned Harig until 2002, and Harig does make a Turcite version of their grinders. Is that what he was thinking of?

[easymike29]

Looks like it was made for a left handed operator.

Gene