Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

When is a Vertex not a Vertex (or is the other way round?)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When is a Vertex not a Vertex (or is the other way round?)

    I recently had the need to make some parts that required indexing and drilling hole and some light milling. Up to today I did have a rotary table or a 5c spin indexer.

    After a couple of weeks of fussing and wasting much time researching, making up my mind, second guessing my decision, researching some more, loosing more sleep trying to decide, making up my mind a second time and then going through the whole process at least three more times; I finally made a final decision. Yes indeed, I did. I went to the store messed about with some of their offerings for at 2 hours, made a decision, changed it, changed back and in the end I went with my instinct, plunked my money on the table and carted off home a 6" rotary table.

    To be fair, my indexing needs where quite simple and I could have easily accomplished the same with the 5c collect spin indexer. I have 5c collets and making up an arbor to hold my parts would be dead easy. I however constantly worry about the future and what I will want to do tomorrow, next week and even next year. I prefer as most would to get the most bang for buck so I had early on leaned over the fence more towards a rotary table (but the spin indexer was never far from my thoughts).

    When I finally dismissed the idea of the spin indexer as being OK for the task at hand but not holding near as much potential as a rotary table I narrowed on having to decide between a 4" or 6" table. I have often kicked myself (rather hard at that) for taking the cheap road or choosing something on the small side as it seemed to have I what I needed. These sorts of choices have always come back to haunt and my instinct was telling me to get the 6" rotary table.

    Now you need to understand, I don't have a vertical mil but I do some light milling on my lathe (a 10 x 22 size) and even some on my drill press, very light indeed on the drill press but it gets the job done when nothing else will do.

    What I finally decided on was this: http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B061

    BusyBee tools is like a small Canadian version of Grizzly tools and they also have this other 6" rotary table:

    http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2485

    This the 4" table I had in my wanderings also considered: http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2724

    This long story has brought me (finally) to my pondering.

    The rotary table I brought home looks identical to the Vertex 6" rotary table however is labeled as with the brand name of Yiyen Tzu Yen Industrial Co. Ltd. Precision Machine Tool Taiwan.

    From my readings I found that Vertex rotary tables where well regarded and part of my choice was based on this rotary table being identical to the Vertex and quite possibly just a re-branded version.

    But is it?

    Is a Yiyen just a re-branded Vertex or is a Vertex a re-branded Yiyen or is one or the other a copy of the other?

    The Vertex manual I have is nearly identical to the manual provided with my rotary table (or is it the other way round?). Parts numbers are the same as is the nomenclature used in the manuals. Vertex refers to the tables as HV (for horizontal and vertical) and the Yiyen refers to the tables THV.

    Anyone provide some light on this paradox?

    In any respect, I am quite pleased with my purchase. Some cleaning up and a wee bit of tweaking and I will be all set.

    It was even on sale. It is a bit large for my lathe and my drill press but not overly so; the 4" table would have been a bit the small side. Too bad they done (at least I couldn't find any reference) a 5" rotary table.

    cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

  • #2
    From what the company website shows Vertex either makes more than rotary tables,or they at least deal in more than rotary tables.

    http://www.vertex-tw.com.tw/
    I just need one more tool,just one!

    Comment


    • #3
      I would'nt bother with busybees 4" it looks like crap and doesnt appear to have many of the major features like table lock downs.

      the 6" looks ok but I think busybees accessorys are kinda low quality.
      for a little more ($430) you can get a phase II 6" that is absolutely awsome.
      https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.co...cat=299&page=1

      But busybees 6" will likey do the job for ya. Work holding is an area you might not wanna cheap out on though.
      Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wierdscience
        From what the company website shows Vertex either makes more than rotary tables,or they at least deal in more than rotary tables.

        http://www.vertex-tw.com.tw/
        A Vertex catalogue is about 1" thick, with thin paper, so yes, they do make one or two other items

        Comment


        • #5
          I recently bought a new 6" vertex rotatry table. I have the 4" one which I cnc'd but wanted a larger one with more "meat" for use on my bridgeport cnc.
          The new 6" one I got has 4 T slots in the table. Apparently this is something they changed, older ones had 3 slots as ususal. Mine is indeed a Vertex, it has their tag riveted right to the table along with the branded box and instructions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Peter S
            A Vertex catalogue is about 1" thick, with thin paper, so yes, they do make one or two other items
            I was wondering if they actually make anything.Remembering how Taiwans manufacturing base was/is setup it seems there where a whole bunch of small Mom&Pop manufacturers that made just one or two items each and then one large company that did final assembly and export.

            I also wonder how much of their stuff is Taiwan and how much is now mainland China and rebagged.
            I just need one more tool,just one!

            Comment


            • #7
              Vertex (a Taiwanese company) used to make their own high-quality tools in Taiwan. But they've out-sourced to Mainland China in recent years, and the quality has gone downhill.
              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the comments.

                I still haven't found an answer as to what if any relationship exists between Vertex and Yiyen.

                Searchs on Yiyen machine tools (or similar) have been inconclusive. I dug the packaging box the rotary table came in out of the recycle bin; simply marked HV-6 rotary table (same nomenclature that Vertex uses).

                At the moment my best guess is that a Vertex HV-6 6" rotary table (with 3 T slots) is essentially the same as the Yiyen HV-6 6" rotary table. Perhaps the Yiyen is the branded version that Busy Bee tools sells, perhaps Yiyen actually became Vertex sometime in the not too distant past and these HV-6 rotary tables that Busy Bee are currently selling are old stock before the name change. Interestingly someone mentioned that they have a newer Vertex 6" rotary table that has four T slots. Busy Bee also sells a 6" rotary table with tailstock and indexing attachment which also has four T slots (and a much newer Busy Bee stock number and looks to be a rebranded Vertex as well - the Yinen 6" rotary table has an older Busy Bee stock number).

                Perhaps I will never know. On to getting some work done.

                cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GrahamC
                  I still haven't found an answer as to what if any relationship exists between Vertex and Yiyen.
                  Look on Vertex's home page for the location of their mainland China factories. Then do the same with Yiyen. If the factories are the same location and/or trade zone, there's a very high probability...
                  "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trouble is that I can't find anything for Yiyen other than Taiwan.

                    The instructional manual that came with the rotary table is very basic but is identical to the Vertex instruction manual for the same size rotary table save for a few editorial differences.

                    I have seen the brand name Yinen elsewhere but google searches return very little. And such is the mystery and mysteries intrigue me but frustrate to end when I seemingly have good clues but they lead no where.

                    I think I will just leave it as is. The rotary table is well made, good fits and finish, with very little backlash and smooth operation right out of the box. I am rather pleased with it so far.

                    cheers, Graham

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lazlo
                      Vertex (a Taiwanese company) used to make their own high-quality tools in Taiwan. But they've out-sourced to Mainland China in recent years, and the quality has gone downhill.

                      Boy that must suck, Chinese people out of work because there jobs where out sourced to China.

                      A bit ironic.
                      The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                      Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I bought a 10" Vertex rotab to go with my Bridgeport clone, but it's sometimes a bit too big and heavy. My head of department used to run a jobbing machine shop from home, but he's into woodworking these days, so he sold off his machines. He still had an 8" Vertex rotab and a BS0 dividing head (not branded, but probably Vertex too) and hadn't got around to selling them before he moved house, so the got stashed in his office.

                        One day with cash in my pocket I offered him £150 (US$250) for the pair and in a moment of weakness, he agreed to the deal.

                        He was rather surprised a couple of days later to see the diving head in bits on my bench. He'd never cleaned it, just taken it out of the box and put it to use. I showed him amoungst other things the congealed packing grease clogging the front taper bearing and the tiny piece of swarf under the rear needle roller thrust bearing. Not that it's back together the difference is clear. With way more bearing preload that it used to have, it's still smoother than a cashmere codpiece.

                        It's well worth the time to strip, inspect and adjust this 'value' quality tooling.
                        Paul Compton
                        www.morini-mania.co.uk
                        http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X