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  • Tool steel

    Hi guys:

    I read through the thread comparing Chinese HSS to American and am going to avoid the cheap Busy Bee tool blanks. I think carbide is wrong for me and my B2227L.

    So I guess I have to mail order and have limited choice at KBC tools. The M-2, 5% Cobalt and 10% Cobalt are all KBC brand so probably Chinese.

    The only other choice is T15 which carries a grinding warning perhaps because it is really hard?

    Can anyone either set me straight or tell me not to worry about grinding T15?

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Mike

    My Dad always said, "If you want people to do things for you on the farm, you have to buy a machine they can sit on that does most of the work."

  • #2
    woah at the price of those T15 at KBC.. $33 for a 1/2 inch blank? $10 for a 1/4" blank?

    Im sure theres gotta be cheaper mail order amercian blanks out there. .like some people said, 'new old stock' on ebay seems like a good option.

    I mainly use carbide inserts myself.. That said I still reach for my HSS bits whenever I need a weird shaped tool, when im cutting plastic, need a good finish on diffacult materials, when I need to cut a O-ring grove, Even for weird shaped boring tools (though I use small bits in a boring bar, not grinding down entire 1/2" bits into a boring bar itself)

    Iv bought lots of KBC's blanks and they seem ok.. but I havent directly compaired to other american HSS, and they do seem to often need sharpening.
    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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    • #3
      Hi Mike

      Don't be in such a big hurry and give up on Busy Bee cutting tools just yet. My initial purchase was the B1283 1/2" 5 pc set from Busy Bee on sale for $30.00.

      For what its worth the first job I tackled was to remove the thread from a badly bent 1 & 1/2" stainless steel shaft. Having no lathe experience I chipped two carbide inserts but that was my fault and not an issue with the product. Also have several carbide tipped brazed tool bits from BB that appear to work well although I have only been at this a year.

      We really need to chat.

      Bill
      Veteran - I served our country because it was the right thing to do.

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      • #4
        It is much cheaper to order from Enco, Msc, Travers, ... and pay the extra shipping to Canada than buy from KBC in Canada. If you really want a shock, look at KBC's prices on their US website compared to their Canadian website.

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        • #5
          Woah, Price of one random vortex cooling gun on the USA version:
          $378, CND: $530.04
          It would be cheaper to order it from the USD site considering $378 after USD/CAD conversion is 398 CAD!!! Current exchange rate is 0.94
          Who the hell does KBC think they are No wonder all there stuff seems about 30% overpriced, it IS.
          Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ordering from the US is a problem for us in Canada.

            Any parcel from a company is flagged at Customs and has to be imported. I don't mind paying duty if applicable, often none is payable, but it still has to be imported by somebody and that isn't cheap.

            Shipping within the Continental US is dirt cheap compared to International shipping.

            I actually have a US address I can use. They accept packages for about 5$. It's a 100kM round trip including a toll bridge(another 6$ round trip). Then I declare goods at the border and pay taxes and applicable duty.

            Motorcycle tires are all I have used this method for because we really get screwed up here for those.

            Mike
            Mike

            My Dad always said, "If you want people to do things for you on the farm, you have to buy a machine they can sit on that does most of the work."

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            • #7
              ? iv had no problems ordering stuff from the USA, but I insure they ship UPS express or USPS. *never ever* UPS ground/standard as that incures very large fees.
              Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: T-15

                T-15 is a tungsten-cobalt alloy. I've got a small assortment of Crucible's Rex T15 and a small collection of Rex 95. They grind about the same: a lot slower than ordinary tools steel. To grind a new bit to a "standard" tool, it takes about 4 or 5 wheel dressings. Notice the chart - ordinary T15 has a grinding ratio of 0.6 vs 3.9 for M2 steel! The warning may also be about the high cobalt content. Cobalt dust is not good for your lungs.

                See here:

                http://crucibleservice.com/datash/dsT15v9.pdf

                Maybe some folks here could help you out on the ordering. If it is for home-shop use, maybe we could arrange a deal where you buy the material and ship it to someone in the States. Then, they can declare it a "gift" and ship it on to Canada.

                pm me if you want to work something out. I did something similar for John Stevenson.
                Last edited by Fasttrack; 12-03-2009, 06:20 PM.

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                • #9
                  Hey Fasttrack:

                  Thanks for answering my T-15 question and thanks also for the offer. Parcel post seems to work, I may take you up on that.

                  Mike
                  Mike

                  My Dad always said, "If you want people to do things for you on the farm, you have to buy a machine they can sit on that does most of the work."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mike
                    PM sent.
                    There is a difference in grinding T-15 PM or (CPM) and Conventional T-15.
                    PM is much easier to grind than conventional. If you can grind ANY HSS bit, you can grind T-15. It just takes longer, but you get what you pay for. A T-15 bit sharpened the same as a M-2 (domestic) will outlast it as much as 20 to 1 before regrinding. I won't even compare the imports.

                    Mike Warner
                    Arthur R Warner Co.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hssmike
                      Mike
                      PM sent.
                      There is a difference in grinding T-15 PM or (CPM) and Conventional T-15.
                      PM is much easier to grind than conventional. If you can grind ANY HSS bit, you can grind T-15. It just takes longer, but you get what you pay for. A T-15 bit sharpened the same as a M-2 (domestic) will outlast it as much as 20 to 1 before regrinding. I won't even compare the imports.

                      Mike Warner
                      Arthur R Warner Co.
                      I second that. The chart on that link I provided put T15 CPM at a grinding ratio of 2.2 - much more manegable.

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                      • #12
                        Two points Mike:- first, for companies in the US who will ship USPS, a 20 lb box is about USD $25.00, and I believe there is an 8 lb rate that is about $10.00. Second, you might give Legere Tools in Ottawa a call. They will have tool steel other than asian; I know that they stock British taps and dies. No idea the cost, but I was p[leasantly surprised when I bought a solid carbide end mill from them, and Starret bi-metal hacksaw blades are $0.98 each! Duffy
                        Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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                        • #13
                          Mike:- forgot to add; the Post Office generally does not even bother to collect the GST and I have NEVER paid duty. Duffy
                          Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Duffy
                            Two points Mike:- first, for companies in the US who will ship USPS, a 20 lb box is about USD $25.00, and I believe there is an 8 lb rate that is about $10.00. Second, you might give Legere Tools in Ottawa a call. They will have tool steel other than asian; I know that they stock British taps and dies. No idea the cost, but I was p[leasantly surprised when I bought a solid carbide end mill from them, and Starret bi-metal hacksaw blades are $0.98 each! Duffy
                            Thanks Duffy:

                            Their website doesn't show what they have so I assumed they did machines only.

                            Mike
                            Mike

                            My Dad always said, "If you want people to do things for you on the farm, you have to buy a machine they can sit on that does most of the work."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yah chinese tool steel is crap?

                              tell that to the 3/8" rougher that has been nearly the only cutter I use for months....... gets used for anything that doesn't need a good finish, and gets used until the finish cuts even then.

                              Just trimmed down some hardened steel with it, took off 1/8", no idea of the RC, but it deflected a file to a considerable extent. The cutter is still cutting as well as any.

                              Just because something is chinese does not mean its crap. It means it came from the same country where a lot of bogus products and crap comes from. That's all.
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

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