My new Steed ( "P51" C-dale Furio F-600 )

[A.K. Boomer]

The P51 is what me and my bro nicknamed it due the fake rivet/bolt heads,
I really do like the looks of this ride and the frame design and geometry is acceptable but the disc brakes are a real drag, at close to 13 oz. a piece with caliper and rotor (26 oz. front and rear) they make this bike a boat anchor as compared to my old one with rim brakes,,,




Soooo,
Iv got my work cut out for me this winter in building an ultra light rear disc/caliper due to the frame not having rim brake mounts. (buttheads)



As for the front I will find a rim brake headshok fork and replicate the raw aluminum clear satin finish with rivets and install a shimano XTR front brake system with servo-wave actuation levers,
I hate inboard discs with a passion, the weight - the torsionally loading the wheel hub and transmitting all the stress to the spokes ( just the thing you don't want to do is have the wheel trying to internally collapse while braking hard and then hitting a boulder - nice recipe for a taco'ed front wheel )

What many people (bikers) don't seem to realize is a rim brake IS a disc brake, its just done up way more sensibly as your stopping with over an 11" radius instead of 3 1/2" -- your also stopping without torsionally loading the hub and spokes, spokes get loaded in the way they were designed - just like carrying the rider,
I can keep the rear disc and lighten it way up as the loads it has to deal with are about a third of what the front does.





Anyways - Iv got my work cut out for me because I run reverse braking too, so the XTR front will have to be modified and adapted to the opposite side of pull for the cable mounts due to the levers being Bass-akwards. Nuthin but fun...
Gonna have one funky fast ride when im done. really don't know what re-sale will be but really don't care. (but i'll keep all the old stuff just in case )

[andy_b]

Are they still "handmade in the USA", or is that a used bike?
I wish I still had my F700. I traded it in on a "Barcalounger" (full suspension C'dale) a while back (heck, it was more than ten years ago now that I think about it). That F700 was the lightest mtn bike I had ever ridden, but the hardtail Al frame was rather jarring on washboards.

andy b.

[japcas]

Hey A.K. My friend bought a new Trek last year and nothing would do him but to have disc brakes. He let me ride it one day and I was surprised at how much force I had to use on the hand levers to stop it compared to the rim brakes on my bike. Is that typical for that kind of brake? Granted this is on an $800 bike, not necessarily what you would call a high end bike but a nice bike none the less. I understand the disc is a lot smaller than the rim, but I guess I figured they would have the leverage worked out on the calipers and brake levers so the force would be about the same. What's your take on this.

[Tinkerer]

Why not fabricate a rim mount for the back... a clamp style would work. Make if from Ti. I think whoever did the graphic package on that was a big fan of OCC.

[quadrod]

I still have my Kline, some day i should ride it again.

[Doozer]

AKB- Why do you bike guys nickle-nad about ounces of weight? Yes, it is a nice light aluminum frame and all such. But it just seems borderline compulsive. I have a 1919 Roadmaster. It is one heavy bitch of a bike. I even left the baby seat on the back. Ya want to get fit and trim?? Ride that beast for a while. If I had a sweet aluminum bike like yours, it would be such an improvement, that a few ounces would not mean a can of beans. I guess it is all relative. Just don't start asking your buds of your thighs are looking fat, Ok?
--Doozer

[tdkkart]

Huh?? Not what I was expecting, an F600 is a big Ford truck??
Oh well, shows what i know about bicycles, although i did recognize the Cannondale name.

[rockcombo]

Moots made a product called moots mounts in 80s that where a clamp on brake stud , find a picture and you should be able to fabricate something similar .
Brice

[DigiSnapMark]

I've got to agree with Doozer...

Who gives a darn about the weight? Are you a serious racer?

If you ride a bike for the fun, a pound or three isn't going to matter. If you ride for exercise, it certainly isn't an issue.

Most of us mortals are perfectly happy with a new $200 bike, rather than the $3000 bikes that people seem to brag about. For $3k, I bought a fairly new dual purpose KLX250S, which can actually take me places, and I don't even have to peddle the thing.

[A.K. Boomer]

Hey A.K. My friend bought a new Trek last year and nothing would do him but to have disc brakes. He let me ride it one day and I was surprised at how much force I had to use on the hand levers to stop it compared to the rim brakes on my bike. Is that typical for that kind of brake? Granted this is on an $800 bike, not necessarily what you would call a high end bike but a nice bike none the less. I understand the disc is a lot smaller than the rim, but I guess I figured they would have the leverage worked out on the calipers and brake levers so the force would be about the same. What's your take on this.

Japcas, these are just entry level mechanical discs and I went through them and lubed them up - they really do pretty well now for stopping power and I could put myself over the bars on dry pavement if I wanted, Powers not the complaint as there's larger rotors with hydraulics now and they definitely have enough power, it's the weight and the way they stop the bike,
early discs used standard wheels and hubs and they quickly found out that the hubs would twist their way right out of the spokes leaving you doing a face plant due to not having any spokes to support the bike, now the hubs have to be larger radius - the spokes more thickness - the rims even have to be stronger -- so its not just the added weight of the caliper and rotor, its all the above,

Doozer stated; "that a few ounces would not mean a can of beans."

actually its well over two cans of 12 to 16 oz. beans --- that's substantial

Also - When you try to stop a wheel this size with that small of a hub you are trying your best to internally collapse the wheel, doing this whilst pasting large rocks in the trail is doomsday for a rim.

Yesterday I rode skyline drive -- got to the top and headed down pretty fast (45mph) I had to clamp hard for the turns but powered out of them and then repeat, when I got to the bottom my front rotors steel was purple, I don't like that, I haven't even put my big front chain ring on yet...

Its a small area to concentrate that much heat, Rims do really good but the argument is that they are attached to your innertube, The only time I got a rim so hot that I had to worry about blowing out my innertube was in Moab Utah on a 100 F day coming down lions back, big friction low speed so the spokes don't have that good of a chance at dissipating, My rim was hot enough to sizzle spit and I melted my brake pads some but I bet a rotor would have been very weak and glowing red.


Digi - while I don't race right now I plan on it again in the near future, I was always in the top five in the sports class back in the early 90's --- Im actually about as far from a "techno weenie" as one gets,

While I may spend a hundred to save a pound some guys spend a thousand to save an ounce.
I always showed up at the races with about a 500 dollar bike that was half thrashed - got laughed at it by the guys who were on their 3,500 - 4,500 dollar rides and then literally ran them and their bikes over when they fell over sideways on the first steep single track (one kid still had his foot attached to his pedal and I used both his bike and leg for traction)


IMO Disc brakes are here to stay but I don't like them, The biggest advantage is muddy/wet conditions but I live in a dry climate state and also will not put my drivetrain through a bunch of muck and mire anyways as they are too expensive to replace,
They had already perfected the rim brake for mountain bikes in this area and if someone was really concerned with this fact they can get ceramic coated rims and run special pads - you can grind sand into them and it wont hurt them.

Imma gonna go check into rockcombo's suggestion just to see what those crazy guys at Moots have done (they are out of steamboat springs Co.)
Moots made a big stink in the mountain bike world when they created a bike with a rear triangle that used a shock on the top tubes but no pivot link on the bottom stays --- If there is anything out there that is a testimonial to the miracles of titanium it is these bike frames - they are called the Moots "soft tails"

Andy - sadly enough C-dale has moved its frame building over to Taiwan - I understand the headshok system is still being built in the US though.

[Your Old Dog]

Life's to short for bikes you gotta pedal

http://www.foxcreekleather.com/image...an946Large.jpg

Now who is going to be the one to blurt out that maybe life wouldn't be so short if we all had pedal bikes?

[A.K. Boomer]

YOD just say no!



This is why weight matters on a Mt. bike, or more so when you turn the bike back around and climb

Half our races are UP the sides of ski slopes fer cri sakes - Think the tour de france guys have it tough in the pyrenees? try lugging a bike up over twice the grade and having it weigh ten pounds more,,, I can assure you that you sure in the hell don't want it to weigh 12 pounds more, I can also attest that I can immediately feel the difference and my time to summit will differ...

By the way -- that's my old bike with rim brakes - note the control of modulation whilst both wheels are perched on rock tops, I was balancing there for the pic