Shop Made Tools

[Noitoen]

Degrease it and wrap it in a paper towel soaked in lemon juice. It will become mat gray and rust resistant. You can try it on a smaller piece to see the rusult

[The Metal Butcher]

BC, that looks very nice. I don't use HSS for anything but special applications anymore, but I quite like the design of your holder. It should be an aloris standard for those who still use HSS for turning.

[BCRider]

Noitoen, wonderful idea. I'll try that on the cut end which shines like a new penny. Will report back....

Thanks TMB.

I've dabbled with inserts and still use a few brazed bits. But overall I've never yet applied myself and bought a variety to try out. It's something on the "To Do" list which still needs to rise to the top of the pile. In the meantime I find that I get the most trouble free work from HSS. Seems like I just look at the inserts I've tried out sideways and the corner crumbles. Any pointers to avoid that other than the usual "don't run it back without withdrawing"? Seems like even just stopping in a heavy cut is enough of an issue to crumble a corner.

On the inserts I've tried (a cheapie four cutter set with no name non coted triangle positive rake inserts) I can't get more than 2 to 12 inches of cutting before the corner is shot. Mind you to be fair I always try these again when faced with some really tough mystery alloy I have here which chews up HSS like a cheap dog toy in the mouth of a big dog.

Perhaps the key is simply better inserts. But my frugal side chokes up at the $15+ cost for name brand inserts. Especially if I'm still doing things wrong and crumble a corner in 2" or so. And I guess I'm a bit gun shy of the cheapies given my experience to date.

If using the prototype is anything to go on I likely won't live long enough to wear out the 3/8 sq blank shown in the pictures above. The other prototype which is around 7 years old now started with a 4" long 1/2" square bit. And measuring it just now it looks like I've used maybe 1/8" of the blank. It's just under 4" long where some other new ones are just shy of 4 1/8". So if nothing else it's a frugal proposition.

The post the holder is on is an import AXA post. So provided the clone maker did a decent job it would fit any other Aloris. I'll find out when the second one done alongside goes onto my buddy's piston style AXA clone.

[rcaffin]

I can't get more than 2 to 12 inches of cutting before the corner is shot.
You may be overloading the carbide. Mind you, the cheap carbide is not good for much anyhow. A lot of the really cheap Chinese carbide is designed for a router - high speed on wood.
But good carbide with small cuts and the right speed/feed is very nice.

Cheers

[Arcane]

BC, that looks very nice. I don't use HSS for anything but special applications anymore, but I quite like the design of your holder. It should be an aloris standard for those who still use HSS for turning.

No kidding! Are you listening Aloris?

[BCRider]

Oh... I think I misunderstood what TMB was meaning. Color me embarrassed...

I'm not totally convinced that it's ready for Aloris or others yet. For starters I may have made the front angle without quite as much angle as the cutter wants for easier grinding. But I was worried about too much overhang at the same time.

I've got a hunk of 1.5x3 honest to gosh mild steel here and I think I may try another version that is maybe 1/8 to 3/16 wider at the nose. And since the tail doesn't have any load to speak off on it I'd like to edge the slot for the tool blank in a bit closer to the dovetail notch to aid with getting a little more angle for easier initial shaping and ongoing sharpening.

[The Metal Butcher]

Yes, not a directive but a compliment! I think that would be a useful holder for a lot of folks.

[Arcane]

Oh... I think I misunderstood what TMB was meaning. Color me embarrassed...

I'm not totally convinced that it's ready for Aloris or others yet. For starters I may have made the front angle without quite as much angle as the cutter wants for easier grinding. But I was worried about too much overhang at the same time.

I've got a hunk of 1.5x3 honest to gosh mild steel here and I think I may try another version that is maybe 1/8 to 3/16 wider at the nose. And since the tail doesn't have any load to speak off on it I'd like to edge the slot for the tool blank in a bit closer to the dovetail notch to aid with getting a little more angle for easier initial shaping and ongoing sharpening.

Your design has the advantage of needing only a simple sharpening on the end of the tool bit like the Diamond tool holder does. Not having to fool around with this angle and that angle is sooo nice and it still doesn't preclude anyone from putting whatever grind they want on the tool bit. It's a win-win!

[BCRider]

Thankyou! That was the intent. As I type this the block to make two more of the slightly modified version that increases the top down angle to make sharpening the leading edge is being cut by the bandsaw. 1/8" more overhang. I'm not all that happy about that part of it. We'll see if that tends to promote any chatter or not.

[Toolguy]

For those who prefer HSS cutters, but run into difficult workpieces, get some Tantung. The most common alloy is Tantung G. It looks kind of like HSS, but way tougher, especially at high heat. Do not quench when grinding, that will make it fracture. Just let it air cool.

[BCRider]

Toolguy, do you have a source for that brand name? I found an old thread on HSM that said McMaster had them. But it doesn't look like they carry them any longer. My normal online sources keep thinking I spelled "something else" wrong and nothing shows up. I see that their main website is active though.

What about M42? In looking at the Tantung references I saw some folks saying that M42 is pretty good too.

So looking over my drawing and checking the body I found out that I didn't max out the angle I could get from the existing holder. So that got me to reset up the angle vise and indicate in the slot and re-cut the tool bit slot so it was deeper into the body at the tail of the holder. I was able to increase the slope by .07" which left .06 between the tool bit slot and the corner of the dovetail. This only made a 1.8° change but it's the 1.8° I needed to get the angle to let me grind the leading edge without grinding away a hunk of the holder as well.

So it looks like there's no need for the Mk II version since this one is now going to work out just fine.

The reason I didn't want too strong an angle as seen from the top is that the more that angle the less effective side rake we get.

Here's a picture of it taking a cut off a stainless flywheel I've had for ages with the intent to make a test indicator stand out of it. I'm turning a hollow on the bottom to leave a 3/16 rim around the edge which I'll lap to the surface plate. The Chinesium HSS lasted for a short bit more after this picture before it started cutting really rough. The stainless had just wore away the tip. So that's one sharpening cycle out of 200+...

I chucked up one of my cheap Chinesium carbide cutters to finish the job. The one I used just made it despite trying to take off just a fine ribbon the whole cut. I had to switch corners to do the rim and top side.

[Toolguy]

M42 is a good lathe bit material.

You can get Tantung from tantung .com.

Shars.com has the best carbide insert tool values. Their tools are high quality and reasonably priced. The tool shanks tell what insert, wrench, clamp, screw, etc. for that tool, so getting parts is a breeze. I use them daily in my work. I would recommend the 1/2" shank set of turning & boring/threading bars to start with - sku # 404-1132. That will probably be all you need, but they have a lot more. They have shank sizes from 3/8 to 1-1/4.

[The Metal Butcher]

Shars is really good. I like CCMT for our smaller lathe and WMNG for our bigger ones. I'm not big on the Shars inserts though. Dad got some Iscar (probably knockoff) inserts for less than Shars, and I went through 6 corners on the Shars before I'd have turned the Iscar once. But the toolholders are hard to beat.

[BCRider]

The look and feel I got from tantung.com was that they are not interested in selling me only a half dozen tool blanks. There's no online "market place" like Shars or McMaster-Carr. Just a page to request a quote. That tells me that they are after volume "industrial" sales. I don't need a hundred pieces. Not even 10 for that matter. If I'm wrong about that please tell me.

In the meantime I think I'll have a go at some M42. I can get it easily and for only slightly more cost than plain HSS. If it's a big step up from regular HSS even if it's not as good as Tantung G it might be enough of a step in the right direction to make do at not much cost.

I've avoided buying things from US outfits for the present because I can't go down across the border to pick up my shipments directly what with the border lockdown against casual travel. I used the US delivery point because both Fedex and UPS charge an exorbitant "customs brokerage" fee that really jacks up the price on smaller hobby orders. I guess I should email them and see if they can ship via USPS which avoids that brokerage fee issue and gets the package directly to my doorstep.

How do you find the inserts sold by Bangood work out? Anyone?

[Toolguy]

I'm having good performance from the Shars inserts, they last a long time for me. Don't know about the Banggood ones.

I just called the phone # for tantung .com. The guy there said to send an email to [email protected] for Steve Morin and request the tantung products you would like to get. You may want to request prices as well.