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  • Lil black boxes for cars??

    Okay, the argument, the "car ran away".. the dealer says it is a rubber floor mat.. the owner says the car just ran away.. I'm burned out on the news.. so many people don't want to take responsibility for "burning their lip on hot coffee" much less having a accident from bad choices.

    Imagine a day when the policeman approaches your car, reads the gps, reads the lil black box record that says you just drove from Atlanta to New York and sped all the way, gives you a sheaf of tickets and a print out of your incriminating evidence pulled from your own car.

    OR? a "special gas pedal" that has "clicks" one for each speed limit.. the computer ramps up to the speed limit selected.. USE the click for computer regulated "great" gas mileage.. one click 35mph.. next 40mph.. etc..
    Excuse me, I farted.

  • #2
    Speeding tickets are a tax that accomplishes nothing. I find some police spokesperson saying 'speed was a factor' is a particularly distilled form of idiocy - speed is ALWAYS a factor, cars that aren't moving don't collide. Speed itself doesn't cause accidents, going too fast for road conditions, following to closely, not unsafe lane changes etc cause accidents. or then there's the fact 40kh over on a clear dry highway is nothing, but its insane on small residential street...but guess where the radar is. I wish they'd stop the nonsense and go catch bad guys

    now technology could be used to identify the real problems; drivers following to closely, running reds, unsafe lane changes, going too fast for the weather/road etc etc
    in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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    • #3
      Catching bad guys doesn't pay their wage. Traffic tickets to innocent citizens pays for everything.
      Andy

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      • #4
        Pretty sure most cars newer than 2003 have a sort of black box built into them that the police and insurance companies can plug into.

        Here in AZ we have photo radar all over the freeway system and on the surface streets of certain cities. They arent to popular with the citizens and most people just ignore the ticket, and hope they dont get served within 120 days

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        • #5
          The OBDI2 series computers actually store quite a bit of recent information that can be retrieved. With some of the new information that is trickling out about Toyota's problems (BTY, the did agree that adding a software brake override to the throttle is a good idea and they are implementing it on new cars) we will get to learn a lot more about how they work.

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          • #6
            Hmmm. Imagine a system that records speed and G forces incurred and downloads to a memory stick. Now imagine having to submit that memory stick with your time sheet to get paid. Been in our service industry 10 years.

            Imagine a system that records all that data, then emails a driving report to your boss the first time you start your laptop up. The laptop is an integral part of your job. That system is in place now.

            A system tied into Onstar that monitors speed, G-force, and location in real time. If your crew truck is parked too close to the bar for too long enroute home, the monitoring service is authorized to disable it. This has been a response to drinking and driving in company vehicles. The monitoring service also is authorized to disable the vehicle remotely like the theft shut down via Onstar. So if you drive down a rough road too fast, your truck mysteriously dies, and you have to call your boss or the company safety man to have it reactivated. That system is also rumored to have been in effect for several years now.

            Why? Well here's a typical story. A local enforcement officer stopped 4 crew vehicles from the same contractor along a 4 mile stretch of highway over a 3 week stretch. All were over weight. All were travelling at least 40 km/hr (25 mph) over the clearly posted speed limit. 2 of the 4 vehicles stopped were replacements for the ones impounded in previous episodes. Some folks is just slow learners. BTW, all 4 crews were on their way home from working for me when they were stopped. For some reason I was closely watched too. No tickets though.
            Last edited by camdigger; 02-03-2010, 06:21 PM.
            Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

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            • #7
              I would never buy a new vehicle!
              Andy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dawai
                Okay, the argument, the "car ran away".. the dealer says it is a rubber floor mat.. the owner says the car just ran away..
                In this case, the LBB will only say that the throttle was at X position. It will not tell you what was holding the gas pedal down.

                I've often thought it would be neat to have a transponder in the road that told the car what the speed limit is. My GPS knows the speed limit now, based on photos of speed limit signs taken when the roads were mapped.

                Dan
                At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                Location: SF East Bay.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by vpt
                  I would never buy a new vehicle!

                  New ones can be neat. My wife's 2 month old Camry hybrid feels a lot like a luxury car. Comfy, roomy, quiet, powerful and good mileage in one package.

                  Compared to a luxury car 10 years ago, this is much better.

                  Of course, I am not going to be working on it (don't want to) so the complexity (or lack thereof) is of no concern.

                  Dan
                  At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                  Location: SF East Bay.

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                  • #10
                    Sure, but I don't want my car to know the speed limit and limit me to any certain speed or limit my braking, steering, etc.

                    I especially don't want cops knowing my speed history, throttle positions, G-forces, etc. If they pulled me over on my way home from the race track they would lock me up for sure!
                    Andy

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by camdigger
                      Imagine a system that records all that data, then emails a driving report to your boss the first time you start your laptop up. The laptop is an integral part of your job. That system is in place now.
                      -Yep, I don't know the details, but the long-haul truckers have had this for a few years now. The truck sends location, speed and other data, I believe by satellite, to the 'barn', or home office of the trucking company.

                      It gives pretty much a minute-by-minute report on the truck and the driver- drivers aren't allowed to drive over X hours in a day (eight, I think) and if the truck is speeding for more than Y minutes (they give you leeway for passing or downgrades) somebody gets alerted, and so on.

                      Now, I'm no fan of this sort of big-brotherism, but in the case of the truckers, the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Speeding is one thing- speeding in a tandem with eight million pounds of anvils and roofing nails is something else. Especially if you've been in the saddle for sixteen hours hoping to get that early-completion bonus, and your methamphetamines are wearing off.

                      The "black box" in a car, too, is a bit big-brotherish, but I'll accept it- IF there's no broadcast feature. Meaning the box can record anything it wants- what radio stations I'm playing, the amount of change in my pockets, the number of illegal aliens in my trunk, and so on- as long as someone has to get a court order (search and seizure) and connect a physical reader to the box.

                      That way it's only used if or when there's an accident- and since I don't drive around trying to ricochet off of other peoples cars (though it does save on brake wear) I'd welcome any extra info to help exonerate me when Mr. Magoo decides to park his Roadmaster on my trunk.

                      Doc.
                      Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vpt
                        Catching bad guys doesn't pay their wage. Traffic tickets to innocent citizens pays for everything.
                        Actualy, taxes pay for everything, We only pay taxes because the goverment provides useful services with them. At least, that was the general idea of taxes...

                        I wonder if the typical speed traps tickets given out even pays for the officers time spent at the speed trap and equipment maintence costs.
                        It really is just to try and keep people from speeding, if there where NO speed traps, I bet a lot more people would speed!

                        And do they have a surplus of officers to send seting up speed traps
                        Or do they have a surplus of officers because they send them to set up speed traps and then need to hire more to do the other jobs?

                        It would also be more intresting IMO if they bothered to have digital signs or something, as in, change the speed limit depending ON road conditions.
                        Yea its ok to do 130kph on the hiway on a bright sunny day. Maybe only 110 at night. Maybe only 90 in light fog or rain (especialy the first few mins of rain after a long dry spell that slicks the road).. Maybe only 60 in snow/ice/heavy fog. most of the 60kph roads here iv done 40kph on in very bad weather. 70kph in good. Iv seen people (especialy with 4x4's that don't realise... EVERYONE has 4 wheel brakes and 2 wheel steering, you can only accelerate a little faster and that does not help you avoid crashing into someone!) who think 70kph is the proper speed for 60kph roads in the snow.
                        Last edited by Black_Moons; 02-03-2010, 07:02 PM.
                        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Doc Nickel
                          -Yep, I don't know the details, but the long-haul truckers have had this for a few years now. The truck sends location, speed and other data, I believe by satellite, to the 'barn', or home office of the trucking company.

                          It gives pretty much a minute-by-minute report on the truck and the driver- drivers aren't allowed to drive over X hours in a day (eight, I think) and if the truck is speeding for more than Y minutes (they give you leeway for passing or downgrades) somebody gets alerted, and so on.
                          It has been a feature on long haul/heavy trucks for 15 or more years. It is done for safety and regulatory compliance, but it has also been sold as a add-on for freight tracing.

                          Basically uses a round doodad roughly the size of a gallon milk container on the roof or headache rack as a GPS transponder.

                          The other units I described in my last post are all for passenger vehicles and pick-ups.

                          FWIW, the Ice Pilots series featured this technology in the episode where they flew the water bombers they'd sold to Turkey across the North Atlantic to deliver them. Apparently, the system they had reported position and speed to a central hub. Interested parties could, with the appropriate passwords, log on and see the plane's position superimposed on a Google Earth type background.

                          A sad fact of life, but this type of "Big Brotherism" is a growing phenomenon. An off shoot of the internet. I could give several more examples, but I digress...
                          Last edited by camdigger; 02-03-2010, 07:10 PM.
                          Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Doc Nickel
                            The "black box" in a car, too, is a bit big-brotherish, but I'll accept it- IF there's no broadcast feature. Meaning the box can record anything it wants- what radio stations I'm playing, the amount of change in my pockets, the number of illegal aliens in my trunk, and so on- as long as someone has to get a court order (search and seizure) and connect a physical reader to the box.

                            That way it's only used if or when there's an accident-
                            A bit off topic, but worth mentioning.

                            Unfortunately, the search and seizure laws don't really work as they should. Once you turn your car over to a parking attendant, car wash or mechanic you have "no expectation of privacy" so if the feds can legally access the car they are legally allowed to get whatever information they want.

                            I'm assuming that it's very much like the rulings that your computer, when in for service, can be used as evidence against you even if you have password protected the files. There's a neat FBI tutorial for agents online somewhere on that subject.

                            Dan
                            At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                            Location: SF East Bay.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mochinist
                              They arent to popular with the citizens and most people just ignore the ticket, and hope they dont get served within 120 days
                              They aren't popular here either. The government has a solution. You can't renew licence plates etc on a vehicle that has tickets and the owner of a vehicle that has tickets can't get any services, drivers licence renewals for example.

                              We get Photo Radar, Red light cam and now the blending of speed radar on redlight cams.

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