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Drill press project - single phase motor (re)wiring

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  • sgtpepper
    replied
    Originally posted by Carld
    Is there some special thing you have in mind?
    forget reverse. i've given up on it.
    now i'm concentrating on making it go up to eleven!

    anyway, all this talk and no progress report. who does this n00b think he is...??
    i'll try to get it running tonight and report back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carld
    replied
    sgtpepper, I was just going along with you and started to put the rolling eyes in but figured it would take away from the, Geez, he didn't really believe that did he, effect. Yep, it was all in fun but I was kind of interested in what your going to use it for in reverse except for left hand drills or power tapping.

    Is there some special thing you have in mind?

    Leave a comment:


  • Doozer
    replied
    I have an Atlas drill press with a 1/6 hp GE motor, and it is fine for metal work. Actually I think it is safer, as it limits how much trouble you can get into somewhat. Also, this is a very good quality motor, with minimal single phase humm. My drill press is so quiet, you can barely tell it is running.
    --Doozer

    Leave a comment:


  • sgtpepper
    replied
    Originally posted by wierdscience
    Honestly before I went to all the trouble of wiring it I would dig up a longer belt, put a half twist in it to run forward and try drilling a few holes.
    thought about it.. i would have to remove the middle spindle if i were to try the crossed belt idea. then i would also have to find and purchase said belt.
    vs. rewiring which is 0 cost since i have all the parts.

    that being said, 1/4hp should be plenty for me as 90% of the time it'll be woodworking with only occasional metalwork. i have access to a full shop if i need major metalwork done.
    do i need to be concerned for bringing up woodworking on a Machinist Workshop forum? hehe.. if it helps any i built an electric motocycle with my buddy last year, no wood there whatsoever.
    Last edited by sgtpepper; 02-05-2010, 12:29 PM.

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  • sgtpepper
    replied
    Originally posted by Carld
    Hmmm, I didn't know that the machines in Australia run the opposite direction that they do here, that's interesting to know.
    sorry i might have mislead you there. (unless that is you're just going along with me, in which case I'm the one misread you.) the australian reference was a bit of a stretch for a joke with a refrence to toilets flushing the opposite direction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carld
    replied
    Hmmm, I didn't know that the machines in Australia run the opposite direction that they do here, that's interesting to know. Maybe some of our Australian members can tell us about that. Maybe they can enlighten us on how they solve the motor problem.

    Foot switches are dangerous. They allow your hands to be involved in being on or near the work while your foot can accidentally hit the foot switch. Things seem to collect on and around the foot switches and even the shrouded ones are still dangerous.

    As stated, a 3 phase motor is the easiest to reverse without stopping the spindle and single phase motors generally have to be stopped rotating to reverse.

    Power tapping with a drill press is a little tricky in that you have to use your hand to stop the chuck and that is dangerous even though we all do it and if you don't stop the chuck in time you'll break a tap.

    If you want to power tap on a drill press you should modify a tapping head to chuck it up or make a tapping head to at least instantly release the feeding of the tap with a dog clutch and then reverse the motor and remove the tap.

    I realize everyone can't afford a mill or an expensive drill press that could handle power tapping but it's no reason to keep doing something that can break taps or hurt you.

    Leave a comment:


  • digger_doug
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    Ah, but if you take the trouble to look at the diagram, you will easily see that of course tehre is an "off" position....

    The usual thing on this board is for several horrified people to see that it is a single-pole "off" switch and instantly start excitedly hyperventilating, saying :"but you MUST break both sides of the line or <insert multi-failure extremely unlikely safety scenario here>".

    Jtiers,
    Hold on here just a minute, your last posting marked 1:42 p.m. was not as
    it was when I answered it.

    I'm not talking about cutting both sides of the line what so ever.

    I have run d.p.'s that run all the time, multi spindle ones
    that you slide the jig from spindle to spindle.

    My point is, using a foot operated switch is nice, free's up both hands,
    and doesn't not require a hand to shut off the spindle.

    BUT, when changing drill bit's, you can accidentally step on
    the switch (even a guarded one) and by simply wiring in
    a switch (I ussually use the original one on the d.p.)
    an extra level off safety is provided.

    Especially in the home shop environment.

    Yes, clutched machines are nice, I have several.
    But the typical home shop d.p. (a belt changing
    unit) is not clutched.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by digger_doug
    Because you wrote this:

    "The switch does not break both sides of the line, but that is common , even in Europe. Since the plug is your safety disconnect, there is no safety issue whatsoever. "

    I took this as you saying that the on/off switch was an unecessary expense
    if using a foot switch.
    Ah, but if you take the trouble to look at the diagram, you will easily see that of course tehre is an "off" position....

    The usual thing on this board is for several horrified people to see that it is a single-pole "off" switch and instantly start excitedly hyperventilating, saying :"but you MUST break both sides of the line or <insert multi-failure extremely unlikely safety scenario here>".

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    Honestly before I went to all the trouble of wiring it I would dig up a longer belt, put a half twist in it to run forward and try drilling a few holes.

    Reason being you will most likely be looking for a bigger motor.1/4HP ain't much even for an old motor which means a 1/2" hole in steel probably won't be doable.

    I have a nearly identical machine that's an honest 3/4hp and it's adequate but barely for a 5/8" hole which is what the machine is rated for.Good luck anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • digger_doug
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    SAY WHAT?

    What on earth would suggest you should do THAT?
    Because you wrote this:

    "The switch does not break both sides of the line, but that is common , even in Europe. Since the plug is your safety disconnect, there is no safety issue whatsoever. "

    I took this as you saying that the on/off switch was an unecessary expense
    if using a foot switch.

    Leave a comment:


  • sgtpepper
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    otherwise, don't mess with FWD/REV.... just get it going forward. I misread you to say that you wanted reversing for some specific reason.
    yeah, no immediate need for reverse. so maybe i'll keep it simple for now and wire it FWD only plus a light. Light would be key.
    maybe add a DPDT for REV operation later if a situation calls for it.

    thanks all for the input. hopefully will have some progress to report later tonight. didnt get my hands on it yesterday.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by digger_doug

    Reaching over to remove the plug every time your hands come near the chuck
    (like using the key to tighten up or change a drill bit) is a pain.
    Flipping the on/off switch (the original one before modification) is easier,
    and will be used more often.
    SAY WHAT?

    What on earth would suggest you should do THAT? "whenever your hands come near the chuck"...????? Eh?

    Are you under the impression that I suggest no power switch? Because if so I might suggest you re-read the post.

    The original switch on most of those DPS that I have seen, in common with virtually all such switches, breaks ONE side of the line..... This is what the 3 phase drum switch does when wired single phase.

    When the electrical circuit is open, EITHER WAY, the motor isn't turning, there is no power. I can certainly appreciate safety, but that is "out there".

    My comment on the safety disconnect was from the standpoint of ensuring the electricity is disconnected when working on the wiring....... In place of a disconnect switch on the wall which would be used for machines wired a permanent connection and no plug.

    And since the original switch does the same thing as the drum switch, I guess you will have to pull the plug anyway..... if you want to be extra super-duper safe. Now I have so far never found the switch to become mysteriously turned on when I was in a different part of the shop, but maybe you do.

    Are you sure you shouldn't shut off the main breaker when you replace a bulb or plug in a lamp..........................?

    Don't go to a regular machine shop, many of the machines keep the motor on at all times, and disconnect the spindle with a mere mechanical clutch......... "incredibly unsafe", I suppose you would say.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 02-05-2010, 09:54 AM.

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  • sgtpepper
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    I am not sure why you want the relay, unless you have the same type start switch as in that motor shown by Paula in the other thread. Or unless you want drop-out on power loss.
    I dont see the point of the relay in my situation either. In fact I can't even verify if it had a relay from the factory.
    Paula's motor looks ALMOST identical, but no way for me to know if mine in fact had the same relay. Although something is definitely missing from the place where the relay would have been. Some home-brew cap came in it's place.

    OK ditching the relay, for now.. although .. i do like the dropout on power loss feature. hm..


    Originally posted by J Tiers
    BTW, I have a drill press of that type out in the garage......... without the table holes....... Its quality is.... well it makes holes, generally nearly where they are intended......
    I kind of like the holes... looks like the surface of the moon.
    as far as precision, not too worried. no high expectations since i paid 50 bux for it.


    Originally posted by fredf
    There is a light socket in bottom.
    Yeah, I just realized that this morning when i went down to take some pictures.
    Will definitely be retro-ing a light in there..somehow.



    Originally posted by Carld
    sgtpepper, why do you want to run a drill press in reverse?
    ..in case I decide to move to Australia.. ?

    Leave a comment:


  • EVguru
    replied
    Originally posted by Carld
    sgtpepper, why do you want to run a drill press in reverse?
    I always used to run the drill press at school in reverse.

    The left hand drill bit set at the back of the cupboard was actually sharp, whilst the ordinary set was usually in a very poor state.


    Of course, that might have had something to do with the fact that some people wouldn't notice if I left the press in reverse and just try and plough their way through.

    Leave a comment:


  • digger_doug
    replied
    Originally posted by Carld
    sgtpepper, why do you want to run a drill press in reverse?

    It's great for tapping. Label the reversing switch "in-out".

    "Since the plug is your safety disconnect, there is no safety issue whatsoever. "

    Reaching over to remove the plug every time your hands come near the chuck
    (like using the key to tighten up or change a drill bit) is a pain.
    Flipping the on/off switch (the original one before modification) is easier,
    and will be used more often.
    Last edited by digger_doug; 02-05-2010, 08:19 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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