Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hydro Costs

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hydro Costs

    Well got my highest hydro bill today. near 400 dollars for 2 months. I was trying to figure out?what was going on. I have only been in my non Electric heared shop (hydronic in floor heating sytem i built) cause its so warm. I didnt use much hydro in the Machine shop as business sucks lately. SO well it must be my old dryer (electric ) and my wife likes to wash my smelly clothes and also dry it. (wearing it soaking wet Michael will get you a bad cold she says) LOL Anyhow seriously i am thinking it must be that old dryer. NOW is a gas dryer really good? or a newwer (plastic type front loader that look cheap ) a better way to go? Timwes are sure toiugh in my area. Just wondering what the Guys think bout this? Thanx Mike

  • #2
    >or a newwer (plastic type front loader that look cheap ) a better way to go?
    You mean like the $1000 Samsung we have? Sure - IF you buy the matching washer, because the new front loaders spin at up to 3600 RPM and come out with less water, which reduces the time to dry. Just buying the dryer without upgrading the washer is likely to do nothing. Many of the loads I dry now are 1/2 the time or less.
    Chris
    Merkel, Tx
    http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod

    Comment


    • #3
      Before you toss the dryer, clean out the exhaust pipe.
      When the pipe gets clogged, drying time goes way up.
      Next i would check the spin cycle on the washing machine

      Before you go to gas, figure out how much it will cost you.
      It doesn't matter, if you heat laundry with gas or electric, its still BTU's.
      So ask your gas company how much gas costsper thousand cubic feet, and how many BTU's are in it ?
      Electricity gives you 3 BTU's per watt.
      So divide the number of BTU's by 3, and you get the number of equivalent watts. Now price out that quantity of watts, and you will be able to compare the costs.
      Rich

      Comment


      • #4
        Gas for heating is allmost allways cheaper, even though the appliances are usally much less efficent in terms of energy consumption.

        $400 sounds a bit much however
        How much do you get charged per kW/H?
        devide $400 by that cost, devide that by 60 days, then by 24 hours, and you have your 'average' load

        Where I live, at 8c kW/H (cheap), thats $400 / 0.08 / 60 / 24 = Continous usage of 3.47kW. Rather.. high, even if you do consider that your dryer is likey running on a 30A 240v circuit at least (7200W), its only on for an hour or two a day.

        I'll note theres some complaints about new 'smart meters' being highly inaccurate and overcharging people massive amounts.

        a $20 'clamp on' AC DMM can give you an idea of current through a conductor without having to be part of the circuit, Good for tracking down what uses how much. (the wattage ratings on appliances are max wattage ratings, sometimes the wattage required for turnon inrush and much higher then normal wattage)

        Also, for standard 120v AC appliances theres something called a 'kill-o-watt'(?) meter that you can plug anything into and it measures long term power usage (kW/H) and power factor and other things.

        You can even check on your meter if you really wish. the dryer should be marked with a wattage that should be within about 20% of what it actualy uses, Turn off the rest of the house at the braker box (insure power meter is no longer spining), Turn on dryer, time how long it takes the meter to count a few kW/H. If the math does not work out, You know your meter is Fubar.
        (By the sound of it, your meter might be overcharging 2x or more if you are not using any electric heat or air conditioners, and don't happen to be running a 3kW electric anneling oven for the past 2 months..)

        Of course, the math is a little diffrent if the power company is charging you 25c per kW/h
        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

        Comment


        • #5
          Mike,

          How many megawatt hours did you use? How does it compare to a year ago?
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

          Comment


          • #6
            you want my hydro bill lol cost me almost 300 bucks a month my entire house is on 11 watt floresent bulbs so is my shop, i have oil heat so only power the fan and a small pump for the furnace and i pay the hydro on 220 volt to run the watter pump for both my house and the land lords and i hav spent mabye 50 hours in the shop the last 2 months and 12 in my basment shop and its all floresent lights to , the price on hydro is nuts ,, and its going up again, and once that hst kicks in up we go again to ,

            its bad when your hydro bill per month is amost half of your rent for the month

            Comment


            • #7
              Electricity isn't expensive regardless of how it is generated. You are paying to have it delivered as well as a tidy profit. These are todays rates when you buy in large quantities.

              ELECTRICITY ($/megawatt hour)

              PRICE
              Mid-Columbia, firm on-peak, spot 48.79 ($0.04879 per kwh)
              Palo Verde, firm on-peak, spot 51.80
              BLOOMBERG, FIRM ON-PEAK, DAY AHEAD, HOUSTON 44.67
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

              Comment


              • #8
                If you get more water out of the clothes, less power is needed to evaporate it. We have a front loader, and the dryer runs half as long as it did with the top loader.

                And gas dryers are inherently more efficient....

                BTUs are NOT BTus.......

                Electric BTUs are rather expensive by comparison, because of built-in inefficiency.

                The distribution cost of gas per BTU is relatively low, as an awful lot of BTus worth can flow thru a relatively small pipe or pipeline, per hour. And gas is essentially "picked up off the ground for free", the infrastructure is merely the "scoops to pick it up".

                Electricity, by contrast, has many many inefficient steps. We tolerate them because electricity has many uses, providing convenient power. But convenience has a price.

                letting aside the power for generation for the moment, which may be hydro, coal, gas, or nuclear (wind and PV are insignificant), there are more losses.

                the generator has a conversion efficiency, the wires and transformers have losses, and those losses are usually higher, since reducing them costs money. That calculation was done many years ago, when generation was cheaper and losses could be higher. net delivery losses from shaft torque to your dryer may easily be 15 to 20%, since the net efficiency is all the various efficiencies multiplied.

                if the generator is 95%, each transformer is 98%, and the transmission wires are 97% efficient overall, then assuming one step-up, and three net step-down transformers to get to you...... The overall efficiency is 85%.... only 85% of the turbine power gets to you.

                If the power plant is coal, or nuclear, only about 50% of the heat energy is delivered as turbine input power to the generator, and that is a pretty good plant. Then only about 43% of the heat energy at the plant is delivered to you as electric power, in a very complicated manner. It could be significantly less, in the case of older power plants.

                Even with hydro, a huge, expensive infrastructure is needed to gather the power, and the generation and transmission losses are still there.

                Meanwhile, gas delivers its heat in one step, directly..............
                Last edited by J Tiers; 02-06-2010, 11:00 AM.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Meanwhile, gas delivers its heat in one step, directly..............
                  Huh? No it doesn't. There are huge compressor stations every couple of hundred miles or so on the pipelines that recompress the gas using some of the gas as fuel. After recompression a lot of that energy is wasted because the red hot gas must be cooled in huge radiators before it can go back into the pipe. On a typical main pipeline there may be a dozen compressor stations to move natural gas across the country from the source. Also, most gas must have sulphur removed and that also costs energy.

                  At the point of use there are significant losses on any vented system. Older furnaces have efficiencies in the 60 to 70 percent range with the rest of the heat going up the stack. The newest ones may be in the 90s but they still waste some energy.


                  If the power plant is coal, or nuclear, only about 50% of the heat energy is delivered as turbine input power to the generator, and that is a pretty good plant. Then only about 43% of the heat energy at the plant is delivered to you as electric power, in a very complicated manner. It could be significantly less, in the case of older power plants.
                  Combined cycle plants can come very close to the Carnot limit and deliver as much as 60 percent of the input energy as electricity.
                  Last edited by Evan; 02-06-2010, 11:37 AM.
                  Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hydro Cost.

                    It is cold here in Quebec. My hydro bill for two months was $167.00, and my gas was $170.00 for one month. We have an LG top loader with no agitator, and it does spin much drier than our previous machine. We have an electric dryer and when it dies I will probably get a gas unit.
                    Ours is a fair-sized house, (2000 sq ft bungalow,) and I have A LOT of flourescent lights, both regular 34 watt and CFLs. There are 28 tubes, 3 CFLs and a couple of halogen spots in my shop, and 12 tubes and 5 CFLs in the rest of the basement. On the main floor and garage, there are 14 tubes, 23 CFLs, and a few incandesants and halogens. I guess my hydro bill is not too bad; maybe I am getting a bulk rate!
                    Jerry, there IS a cost to our natural gas. Most of it comes from northern Alberta and northern British Columbia. It is mostly sour, and sweetening it has made Canada a world supplier of sulfur. Also it is 3000 miles to my furnace and it must cost to pump. The recompression stations are huge! I do agree that it has a much better conversion effeciency than any form of electric generation. I think that Hydro Quebec reckons on about a 10 -15% loss from water to my meter. Duffy
                    Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evan
                      Huh? No it doesn't.
                      ............................
                      Combined cycle plants can come very close to the Carnot limit and deliver as much as 60 percent of the input energy as electricity.
                      of course it is.....
                      the HEAT is produced in one place, inside the device and delivered directly to the heated item.

                      The compressor stations etc are part of the delivery system..... not unlike transmission lines and substations for electric....... with similar losses compared to delivered power.... maybe less.

                      The elephant in the room is the initial power plant efficiency losses. Whether those are 50% or 40% makes relatively little difference..... In one case the delivered power is 43% of the heat energy, in the other case the delivered power is 51% of the heat energy.

                      There is a 20% difference, but in either case there is a huge amount of loss before you even start delivery.

                      if it were MORE efficient to use electric heat, people would be converting in droves...... but if anything, people are bagging their electric heat whenever possible.
                      1601

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        why is an electricity bill called a hydro bill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In western Canada like a lot of places most of our electricity is generated by damming rivers and diverting the water through turbines. Full name is "Hydroelectrictricity".

                          Terry

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by terry_g
                            In western Canada like a lot of places most of our electricity is generated by damming rivers and diverting the water through turbines. Full name is "Hydroelectrictricity".

                            Terry
                            right

                            so what do you call your water bill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The City calls it "Utilities"

                              Terry

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X