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  • Question about tapaer shank arbors

    1) Do most machinists cut the tang off of their taper shanks drill chuck arbors to allow the full travel on the lathe tailstock?
    2) Is there a taper shank holder designed to hold center drills? I currently leave one chuck setup with a center drill and a couple others with drill bits for the particular project I am working on.
    3) If I wanted to face the end of a taper shank arbor (assuming it is not through hardened) how would I hold the Jacobs 33 taper in a chuck? Thanks
    Gary

  • #2
    1) Not sure, likey depends if you have a MT drill press to also put them into, my MT arbors I actualy have to grind the tangs corners down a little or it won't seat properly at all in my tailstock, but I havent bothered cutting them right off. Very tempted however, to restore that extra 1"+ travel. (Note you don't wanna cut so much off that you can't 'self eject' with your tailstock screw, and idealy relieve the end of the taper so if it gets a ding on the end, it won't interfear with it seating in your tailstock)

    2) Havent seen one, but lots of people make them by just turning a MT blank out of leaded steel or some other easy to machine steel and drilling a hole in the end and drilling another hole for a set screw.

    If you setup a straight->mt arbor in your chuck, you can use a test dial to set the EXACT angle on your compound.

    3) Hmmm, I have no idea how you'd hold a tapered object in a chuck to drill it.
    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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    • #3
      I'll try this:

      1. No I don't.
      2. There might be, you can certainly make a dedicated holder. Look at "shop made tools" thread, there may be some in there. I recall seeing some photos posted recently of someone who drilled out some tapershanks that match T/S bore w/ set screws. Looked relatively simple to produce.

      3. EDIT I misread the end of the shank OP wanted to face. There is a good suggestion down the page.
      I seriously doubt there is a lathe w/ J33 headstock taper!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Last edited by recoilless; 02-15-2010, 01:30 PM.
      I bury my work

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      • #4
        The tang on a tapershank arbor is there primarily for removal purposes, secondarily to prevent spinning. Centers and other tooling designed for tailstock work don't always have a tang, but also do not see the forces and twisting that is encountered in drilling applications which is what the Morse taper was originally designed for. For those reasons, I would not remove the tang, and no, most other machinists do not cut the tang off either. You really only gain a minor advantage in depth in drilling.

        John Stevenson had a post recently, probably in the shop tools thread.
        Jim H.

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        • #5
          Should I cut the claw off my claw hammer so I can use the hammer for metalworking?

          --Doozer
          DZER

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          • #6
            Use it anyway, scribe lines on the wedge cutout and use them as a sheet metal or thickness gauge, then beat it with the hammer and recheck

            .
            .

            Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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            • #7
              1) Do most machinists cut the tang off of their taper shanks drill chuck arbors to allow the full travel on the lathe tailstock?

              ANSWER- No, the tang does not interfere with how deep the taper fits into the taper socket. If it does the socket is mis-machined. If there is a place for the tang to fit in the socket to keep it from spinning the socket is designed to allow full penetration of the taper. If the taper won't go all the way in the socket is mis-machined.

              2) Is there a taper shank holder designed to hold center drills? I currently leave one chuck setup with a center drill and a couple others with drill bits for the particular project I am working on.

              ANSWER- You can buy MT adapters to hold drills and they should hold a center drill. They are split like a collet but most make one by modifying a dead center to hold the center drill. I can change a drill bit in a chuck faster than I can remove a MT from the tailstock quill or drill press so why change tapers.

              3) If I wanted to face the end of a taper shank arbor (assuming it is not through hardened) how would I hold the Jacobs 33 taper in a chuck? Thanks

              ANSWER- Why do you need to face it? It's not a critical dimention nor is a machined surface required on the end. Just take it to the pedestal grinder and grind the end off if you feel the need to remove the tang. If your careful you can get a very good finish by hand.
              It's only ink and paper

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              • #8
                Carld, the arbor with the tang requires the tailstock to be advanced 1-1/8" past full retraction when inserted. So the 2-1/2" travel of the tailstock drilling capacity is reduced to 1-3/8". There is nothing in the tailstock bore to receive the tang. Hence the reasoning to cut off the shank. I do not use the same arbors in the drill press.
                Gary

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gary Gill
                  Carld, the arbor with the tang requires the tailstock to be advanced 1-1/8" past full retraction when inserted. So the 2-1/2" travel of the tailstock drilling capacity is reduced to 1-3/8". There is nothing in the tailstock bore to receive the tang. Hence the reasoning to cut off the shank. I do not use the same arbors in the drill press.
                  That's wild..... what drill has a tang 1 1/8 long? the worst that happens with mine is about a half inch reduction (MT2) because if I retract faerther it ejects.

                  If yours takes 1 1/8 off for the tang then your tailstock may have some severe problems.
                  1601

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dunno what kind of lathe the O.P. has, but my H.F. 7X10 mini-lathe requires the tang to be cut off and then some if you're to have anywhere near full travel of the tailstock.

                    Ironically, my old Atlas lathe came with a Jacobs chuck on a #2 M.T. arbor that was shortened like that. Don't remember the details, but it was a heckuva job to remove that and replace it with a proper, full-length arbor. Not long after, I bought the little H.F. lathe and had to shorten the new arbor.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jdunmyer
                      Dunno what kind of lathe the O.P. has, but my H.F. 7X10 mini-lathe requires the tang to be cut off and then some if you're to have anywhere near full travel of the tailstock.
                      the problem with the tailstock must be it is designed for a stub taper, or else the screw is too long.
                      1601

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm with JT because I have never seen a drill or MT adapter or drill adapter that has a tang 1 1/8" long.

                        Here is my take on the problem. The screw in the tail stock is to long. Try this, run the quill out until the screw does not move the quill. How far past the 2 1/2" line on the quill is the quill sticking out? If it is sticking out 1 1/8" or more there is your problem. The screw should push the quill maybe 3/4" to 1" past the last mark on the quill, anymore is a waste and a problem.

                        SOLUTION: take MT and cut the tang off being careful to just cut the tang off, no more. That will be the shortest MT you should ever encounter. Now sock it into the quill and gently screw the quill back into the tailstock and see where the quill stops. If the quill stops more than 1/2" from the "0" mark then cut off enough of the screw so it will stop at the 1/2" mark. From then on you will have 2" of quill travel.

                        You can't ever get the full travel of the quill marks because you have to have at least 1/2" to push the MT out of the taper. On some lathes the quill goes in past the "0" mark and on those you have enough overtravel that the screw can still push the taper out. Most lathes don't do that.

                        Occasionally you will find a taper that is to short for the screw to push it out. in that case you will have to put a short slug of steel for the screw to push against to get the taper out.

                        Life sucks sometimes.
                        Last edited by Carld; 02-14-2010, 12:22 PM.
                        It's only ink and paper

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by John Stevenson
                          .... then beat it with the hammer and recheck
                          Dangit John, now you've gone and exposed my secret. That's the step I call the "middle part" on most of my projects.

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                          • #14
                            To face the end off, put the arbor back on the drill chuck, close the drill chuck all the way tight, then chuck on the outside of the drill chuck with the lathe chuck.

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                            • #15
                              JTiers said:
                              the problem with the tailstock must be it is designed for a stub taper, or else the screw is too long.
                              The tailstock on the 7X10 is in fact designed for a stub taper. I just measured the MT arbor on the chuck that I use with that machine, and it's a full inch shorter than a standard one on another chuck that I just checked.

                              If I use a standard-length arbor in the mini-lathe, I have used up most of the tailstock travel. OTOH:, if I were to use the short arbor chuck in other applications, I'd certainly have trouble removing it from the female taper. Examples are my wife's wood lathe or the #4 -> #2 reducing sleeve that I use in the LeBlond tailstock.

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