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Poor engineers, snow building collapses

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  • Poor engineers, snow building collapses

    There are metal buildings falling all across the nation. Sheet metal perlings installed where Ibeams should have been.

    Who is to blame? During the blizzard of 93 here, we had a surge in construction rebuilding the mills. Where roofs are calculated in acreage. Did they learn from those mistakes.. no.. not much.
    Excuse me, I farted.

  • #2
    It would be nice if someone in the media who is busy telling everyone to wear gloves when it is cold would tell them to also pay attention to their roofs. Most roofs are not built for 2-3 and even 4 feet of heavy wet snow. I have a roof rake and use it maybe once per winter, sometimes more.

    My old shop had the roof built from pallet wood I think. Not one board was longer then 24". I had to put a 2x6 stringer perpendicular to the roof trusses and then T a heavy 4x6 beam from the ceiling to the top of my heavy duty workbench. I used a sledge hammer to slam the beam into place. Came out one warm day to find the beam laying on the floor. So much weight melted off the roof that when the roof sprung back up the beam fell. Keep in mind, it is possible to reinforce a structure by doing just that.
    Last edited by Your Old Dog; 02-14-2010, 10:19 AM.
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    Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

    It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

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    • #3
      The minimum standard here for a roof is that it must support 66 lbs per sq ft. That is a cubic foot of water or about 4 feet of the heaviest type of near freezing wet snow. The standard used to be 44 lbs many years ago so older building can be a problem. We don't get enough snow here to be a problem but go up into the mountains not far from here at places like Barkerville and they may get as much as 15 feet of snow. People that live in trailers have to build A frame roofs over them.
      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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      • #4
        Those roofs were designed for global warming, it throws their cipherin' off if it cools somewhat.

        rollin'

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        • #5
          Global warming makes it worse. First you get snow and then it rains on it.
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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          • #6
            Evan, another issue with heavy snow loads on roofs, is asymetric loading. Both here in Quebec, and in BC there have been instances where heavy loads have built up on steep pitches with metal cladding. Sun comes out, snow slides off one side, and building collspses due to instantaneous uneven loading. The builders forgot that the truss designs assume a fairly even snow load. If funny vallys or stepped pitches allow fro drift buildup, SOMEONE is supposed to recheck the application!
            Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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            • #7
              A while ago a friend purchased an old house (built late 1800s) They talked about insulating, and my first response was to tell them to re-enforce the roof, then insulate.
              Needless to say they listened to the insulation salesman instead of me, and piled it in. The first good snow we got had their roof looking like a pagoda. We were out there after every snow that winter clearing off the roof, then re-enforcing the roof that spring. (After raking and shoveling all the insul out of the way)

              Those old roofs were expected to have the snow melted off, not piled up as it will with insulation.

              Ken.

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              • #8
                Isn't Dawai in GEORGIA?

                I very much suspect that your nice snow loading requirements DO NOT APPLY as far as building codes in GEORGIA.

                They would not be expecting that sort of snow.

                With a peaked roof, its a bit difficult to design a roof that cannot support 2 foot of snow...... it's inherent in the structure if it is competently built. The typical wood trusses used in new house construction are cheap and cheezy, but on 24 inch centers there is a lot of support. Old houses here typically have 2x 8 rafters, on 16 inch centers, each one tied into a 2 x 8 crosstie that is the ceiling joist. that triangle is not easy to distort.

                if you have an old wood roof that lacks sufficient "ties" across, then you could have an issue. We got 2 foot of snow about 30 years ago, and the apartment garage roof collapsed. But it was a wood roof, almost 60 feet long and 20 foot across, with three poorly nailed 2x4 crossties. Most of one side was open, to let in cars, so no wall support there, either.

                With a steel building, flat roof, etc, the "rebar and angle stock trusses" might be too badly made to work. Some of the welding I have seen on them was horrible. They need to hire some of those chinese kids to teach the American welders how to do their work.
                Last edited by J Tiers; 02-14-2010, 12:18 PM.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

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                • #9
                  David, are you suggesting that southern states -- notoriously conservative and anti-big brother -- should have stricter building codes and hire more inspectors ?

                  We all know that government is the problem, not the solution, 'cuz Saint Ronnie said so. Let the invisible hand of the free market hold up those roofs.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MTNGUN
                    Let the invisible hand of the free market hold up those roofs.
                    it may.

                    Companies that build structures which fall down DO go out of business due to lawsuits and people avoiding them like the plague, which ensures they build no more junky buildings.

                    A big company that sold tainted meat recently went out of business, their customers ran away like the wind.

                    But ordinary building codes are clearly in the public interest, and within the natural and expected function of local government.
                    1601

                    Keep eye on ball.
                    Hashim Khan

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by J Tiers
                      ordinary building codes are clearly in the public interest, and within the natural and expected function of local government.
                      J Tiers, try selling that in my county, where there is no building code and no inspector. We don't need no stinking government to run our lives. We worship private property and greed and we have a 10 commandments monument at our courthouse.

                      If someone wants to build a commercial hog farm next door to me, who am I to question his sacred private property rights ?

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                      • #12
                        Wal, dat wuz YER choice...... You can vote them in if you want them, or leave it as-is.

                        Whatever the majority of folks there think.

                        it's called a 'representative republic" (depending on where the salmon you speak of are), for a reason.... they in government represent you, and apparently you don't want building codes.
                        1601

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MTNGUN
                          Let the invisible hand of the free market hold up those roofs.
                          That's a building code problem, not an engineering problem. In a free market economy, the builder will build the cheapest house that conforms to code (and in many cases, doesn't even do that ). Like Jerry says, I imagine that Southern States aren't particularly strict in enforcing roofing codes.

                          By the way, for the second time this winter, Dallas actually got a bit of snow, but my 7 year old daughter has still never seen snow (Austin)

                          It's 65° and bright and sunny in in Austin right now...
                          Last edited by lazlo; 02-14-2010, 04:24 PM.
                          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                          • #14
                            MTNGUN,

                            Is this your place?

                            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MTNGUN
                              If someone wants to build a commercial hog farm next door to me, who am I to question his sacred private property rights ?
                              You could move here to Massachusetts, where you can buy a half-million dollar home in a new development of other half-million dollar homes, that were all built right next to a commercial hog farm that has been there for 50 years. Then you can go to the town and complain because it smells like a hog farm in the summer and have the town close the farm down.

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