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Can I grind with the side of a Type 11 (flaired cup) wheel safely?

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  • oldtiffie
    replied
    Sorry

    Originally posted by WoodburnBob
    Oldtiffie: Really great photos & grinders & shop. I also noted the grinder across the room near the wall, and suspect there's even another perhaps just out of the image on the right.

    You were right. I did over-think it. I went back and vastly underthunk it and it was pretty simple. Shamefully so.

    Today I used a little time to sharpen the ends of two 4 flute endmills. Thirty minutes to set up from scratch and less than 2 minutes to do the grinding.

    I didn't get the camera out to document riding that tricycle for the first time.

    My articulated fixture is a cousin to yours, but it has only 3, not 4, right angle scaled swivel elbows. One is not machined as actually 90 degress, but rather 94 degrees. 4 degrees presumably for the convenience of a cast in relief. On the last (top) plate I can bolt down a rectangular cast holder as you show for holding bits or tool holders, or bolt in a work head spindle that has a MT3 taper hole. I used the latter and a finger for the end mills. I forgot about the degree/angle scales as you suggested and relied on the protractor off a combination square set. Since the table is level, angle setting became trivial. Thanks for that advice, too.

    I'd be interested to look at the manufacturer's sites featuring your grinders if you have any links at hand. They look an idea size for putting in a home shop. Not planning on buying one, but I'd like to be able to recognize one if I tripped over one abandoned on a street corner.

    Thanks again, Oldtiffie
    Bob
    Sorry Bob.

    I missed that post of yours earlier.

    Glad to help.

    Grinding is not as difficult as some would have you believe. A little bit of fore-thought, creative thinking and patience can go a long way. Too much emphasis is put on mirror finishes and grinding to "tenths" unnecessarily. It is quite possible but is a PITA if done when not really needed. They are very handy for finishing as well as machining stuff that mills or lathes have problems with.

    Yes, I have three precision grinders:

    surface grinder:
    https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=G203

    tool and cutter grinder (no longer a catalogue item):
    http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...head_demo9.jpg

    and this universal tool and cutter grinder and cylindrical grinder on the other side of the shop:
    https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=G198

    Leave a comment:


  • WoodburnBob
    replied
    Thanks, Evan, for pointing back to that. I dug around and found the original thread. Really a fantastic job, I agree.

    http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=14890

    Leave a comment:


  • Black_Moons
    replied
    wow, talk about turning a gedderdone project into something sexy and sleak.
    Did you use metal filler to fill in all the divits/etc? Or some other filler like epoxy?

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    There are two sizes of Jockey grinders. The saddle is adjustable. The E63 can do from around 30 to 60 inch diameter and there is a another for 30 down to something much smaller. My wife doesn't sell many of the small ones and can't remember the minimum size.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Well, since nobody else seems to want to do it I will show what a masterpiece McGyver's tool holder turned out to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazlo
    replied
    That's a great picture Evan -- never saw one of those. I'm guessing there were saddle jigs for smaller blades?

    Leave a comment:


  • WoodburnBob
    replied
    Oldtiffie: Really great photos & grinders & shop. I also noted the grinder across the room near the wall, and suspect there's even another perhaps just out of the image on the right.

    You were right. I did over-think it. I went back and vastly underthunk it and it was pretty simple. Shamefully so.

    Today I used a little time to sharpen the ends of two 4 flute endmills. Thirty minutes to set up from scratch and less than 2 minutes to do the grinding.

    I didn't get the camera out to document riding that tricycle for the first time.

    My articulated fixture is a cousin to yours, but it has only 3, not 4, right angle scaled swivel elbows. One is not machined as actually 90 degress, but rather 94 degrees. 4 degrees presumably for the convenience of a cast in relief. On the last (top) plate I can bolt down a rectangular cast holder as you show for holding bits or tool holders, or bolt in a work head spindle that has a MT3 taper hole. I used the latter and a finger for the end mills. I forgot about the degree/angle scales as you suggested and relied on the protractor off a combination square set. Since the table is level, angle setting became trivial. Thanks for that advice, too.

    I'd be interested to look at the manufacturer's sites featuring your grinders if you have any links at hand. They look an idea size for putting in a home shop. Not planning on buying one, but I'd like to be able to recognize one if I tripped over one abandoned on a street corner.

    Thanks again, Oldtiffie
    Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Yes, it's ok to grind on the sloped face of type 11 wheel. Incidentally, a 4 1/2 inch type 11 is commonly called a "Jockey wheel" because it is the size that a hand held Jockey Grinder uses for dressing saw blades. My wife sells them.

    Leave a comment:


  • oldtiffie
    replied
    Wheels

    Further to my previous post, here are a couple more pics I found that might assist:





    I use these hand-held wheel dressers for "contour" shaping and relieving of side faces as well as general work on my T&C grinder wheels. They are very cheap, last for-ever and are in fine and course grades and do an excellent job:


    Here are some of my wheels - all except for surface grinding (dressed flat with a quite cheap diamond dresser) get "dressed" (free-hand) with the "sticks" in the previous pic:

    Leave a comment:


  • oldtiffie
    replied
    Tool post

    Thanks WB.

    Don't over-think these things.

    Can you post some more pics of that machine - plus any accessories - and I will see if I can help.

    Do you have a welder and a mill? If so there is a project that you can make that will sort out lathe tool grinding very well.

    This one - made by McGyver - is the best I've seen in a long time:


    Here is one of mine (came with my T&C grinder):


    Here is another:


    Now make one of these "tool posts" to go into or onto your 3-position head and you are on your way (gives a whole new meaning to Tool-post grinding too!!):


    I don't worry about the scales (degree measurements) as they are not reliable enough. I use a protractor on the grinder table.

    Leave a comment:


  • WoodburnBob
    replied
    Thanks very much, tiffie.

    I was getting worried when > 100 looked and no one spoke. Your reassurance was just what I needed. I was thinking of dressing a 1/8" or so land as you suggest and being gentle.

    FWIW, I'm experimenting with grinding single point lathe threading bits on ordinary HSS...trying in the end to improve my threads on the lathe.

    I bought a used Asian t&c grinder, an older model of the one Enco still sells. I can't figure out how to set the universal working fixture on the table, which swivels in 3 planes, such that I can grind side relief and a precise 30 degrees by way of the simple index marks at each swivel (without doing a bunch of math) at the same time on the flat face of a flaired cup. With the outside circumference of the cup it will be trivial, I think, to do it by raising the bit edge above the center-line as one would to get the correct relief on an end-mill.

    I'm talking about the fixture on the table left...not the air spindle & finger on the right. The other concept is illustrated in the other 2 pics from a KO-Lee manual, if anyone is wondering what I'm trying say.



    Last edited by WoodburnBob; 02-21-2010, 10:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • oldtiffie
    replied
    OK

    Bob.

    You will be OK grinding on pretty well any face.

    A cup or saucer (both "dished") can grind on a small land on the side or on the periphery. Just keep the wheel dressed and "listen" to the grinder and don't go so hard that you over-load it or so slow (or so deep) that you either "burn" the job or glaze the wheel.

    "Side grinding" on a "flat" wheel - as used on a surface grinder is OK as well - just dress a shallow "relief" into the side of the wheel so that there is only a small "land" (face) left. Use the "land".

    One of the problems with "side grinding" is that if the grinder head/spindle is a lot "out of tram" with the grinder table "ways/guides" that you will or may get a bit of "wheel drag" as the wheels exits the cut on the job. Most times its OK if you take it easy.

    I'd suggest that instead of side-grinding with the job at the bottom of the wheel that you lift the job so that it is at about wheel centre height and use table stops to limit the table travel - so that you don't "crash" the job and the wheel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Can I grind with the side of a Type 11 (flaired cup) wheel safely?

    The flaired cup has 3 potential grinding surfaces: inside, face and outside. The face is ordinarily or commonly used. I want to grind a single point tool bit on the side, not the face. You aren't supposed to do side grinding on a straight (plane, or flate) wheel. Does this warning apply to Type 11 wheels. I have a bunch of cup wheel and no straight wheel that's suitable. I just don't want to be picking aluminum oxide out of my body later today. Any advice appreciated.
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