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Cut Knurling tool in March/April issue

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  • #46
    Originally posted by deere_x475guy
    Bill can you tell me what issue(s) the bender is in?
    Finger Brake - Part One, The
    Ward, Michael

    Subject: Machine Tools
    Issue: Vol. 27 No. 2 Mar-Apr 2008

    Comment


    • #47
      I got the spindles all done, correctly, too. I did substitute sealed, stainless steel ball bearings for everything..(no bushings)

      I also made up a MK1 holder to fit my toolpost (without the gears).

      The danged thing works! In my experimenting with it, I actually cut knurled a piece of 5/16" brass tubing....I could have never done that with my scissors knurler


      Come on Mike! Lets have the third installment so I can make the gears...Please...
      No good deed goes unpunished.

      Comment


      • #48
        I've also enjoyed the articles and look forward to making the tool some day soon.

        One thing on my mind is to compliment Michael on his inclusion of aesthetic considerations in the discussion. For instance one comment was that a particular hole wouldn't be problematic if drilled clear through, but was more pleasing as a blind hole. This it the kind of thing that I think needs to be included in hints and instructions for people learning the trade. For finished tools it separates the merely functional from what looks like it came from the hands of a master craftsman. Mastering the craft means making a tool that not only does the job but is a pleasure to see and handle day after day. This may be hard to quantify, but in my opinion a worker in an environment like a tool and die shop can finish the day with more energy or in a better, more acute frame of mind if he isn't constantly fighting idiosyncrasies of his tools, or is actually buoyed by the pleasure of their use to him.
        .
        "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

        Comment


        • #49
          Just one last post about what I think was the best, most useful and most difficult project this magazine has published in a long time. I would like to thank McGiver for all his work. More in next post

          Comment


          • #50
            The orig. tool had 40 tpi cutters but I do a lot of heavy knurling deep in 6061. There are days my G4003G will knurl 24 feet of 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch stock with a scissor. Here are pix of steel with sharp knurls (bad pix, bad camera, bad photographer) but I think you will get the idea. This thing takes a while to set up and you have to use the formula but I cuts a clean sharp knurl.
            thanks
            ed


            I promise not to post to this thread any more I am sure people are bored hearing about knurling.

            Comment


            • #51
              I was just referred to this thread because of some questions I was asking in another thread and I have to say thanks to McGyver for writing the article. . .I just ordered the back-issues for the cut knurling tool and I'm looking forward to recieving them so I can get started on my project.

              Originally posted by dp
              Finger Brake - Part One, The
              Ward, Michael

              Subject: Machine Tools
              Issue: Vol. 27 No. 2 Mar-Apr 2008
              Thanks for posting this. . .looks like I will be ordering a couple more back-issues!

              Originally posted by TGTool
              One thing on my mind is to compliment Michael on his inclusion of aesthetic considerations in the discussion. For instance one comment was that a particular hole wouldn't be problematic if drilled clear through, but was more pleasing as a blind hole. This it the kind of thing that I think needs to be included in hints and instructions for people learning the trade. For finished tools it separates the merely functional from what looks like it came from the hands of a master craftsman. Mastering the craft means making a tool that not only does the job but is a pleasure to see and handle day after day. This may be hard to quantify, but in my opinion a worker in an environment like a tool and die shop can finish the day with more energy or in a better, more acute frame of mind if he isn't constantly fighting idiosyncrasies of his tools, or is actually buoyed by the pleasure of their use to him.
              I couldn't agree more. . .as an apprentice Tool & Die Maker (2nd year) this is something that we often discuss during our apprentice meeting. . .the details which set a machinist apart from a master craftsman and I am striving to become the latter and not the former.


              Originally posted by gr8life
              The orig. tool had 40 tpi cutters but I do a lot of heavy knurling deep in 6061. There are days my G4003G will knurl 24 feet of 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch stock with a scissor. Here are pix of steel with sharp knurls (bad pix, bad camera, bad photographer) but I think you will get the idea. This thing takes a while to set up and you have to use the formula but I cuts a clean sharp knurl.
              thanks
              ed


              I promise not to post to this thread any more I am sure people are bored hearing about knurling.
              GR8Life. . .I'm gonna be cutting some knurls in 17-4 pH SS that look exactly like what you posted. . .could you post the details (TPI) on the knurl roll you used?

              Thanks!

              Comment


              • #52
                Looking at some of the previous pictures of the knurl in parts.... since your using miniature bearings on the knurl pins I can only assume that there isn't much force required to make the cut as opposed to impressing the pattern with a conventional knurling tool. Also if you can knurl small dia. stock in the length pictured the force has to be much less than that of impressing the pattern. Very interesting.

                JL...............

                Comment


                • #53
                  Thanks again, McGyver. I started out on this tool last year. Built the whole thing, added my own tweaks, and put it together. That's when it unraveled.

                  Set up as two basically free rotating spindles, I did get some nice knurls, and it worked on just about anything, except square stock. When I got into making the gears, which serve only to adjust the relative positions of the knurls and spindles in relation to the work...I hit a brick wall. I made dozens of gears. At one point, I was milling the gear teeth onto a 6" piece of metal and sawing off each gear, and turning it down, one gear after another.
                  I switched to brass, and then to aluminum. I tried everything, but the gears refused to work. I even put a set together, packed the housing with valve grinding compound, and spun it with a cordless drill for 20 minutes....all I got was smaller, ill fitting gears. I made another housing. This one was better, but the gears still wouldn't work properly. Frustrated, I kept trying to make the thing work. All of the parts looked good, even the gears looked like miniature jewelry, but they would not mesh.
                  Eventually, the project fell by the wayside, and became a part-time project.
                  My junk box contains no less than four intricately machined housings and numerous spindles and gears.
                  It was then I had that "Thomas Edison" moment of inspiration. I took out all of the pieces, and started measuring them. Every housing was different, all of the locations of the bores was different, and the sizes ...well, we won't go there. I decided to make another one, and use some of the existing parts...Hmmm, that didn't work, none of them were even close to the drawings in dimension...how in the heck....EUREKA! It had to be in my initial squaring and layout.
                  Up to the time, I had chopped out a block of steel, with my power hacksaw, cleaned the edges up, and hoped they were square. (nothing was). Then, I would blue one face, and start drawing layout lines on it....using a carpenter's square and my electronic caliper. The punch marks were then made "freehand"...Geez! By the time I bored the first holes in the block, the whole thing was so far off, it was ridiculous.

                  That's when I decided to do it right, instead of "TLAR" (That Looks About Right). My first purchase was a brand new granite bench plate, with calibration papers. Then I built an electronic height gage, using one of Harbor Freight's best electronic calipers. (it turned out to be surprisingly accurate). Last, but not least, I ordered a good quality optical center punch set. With these new toys in hand, I set up and cut my housing block and squared it, to the dimension called out in the plans. Bluing went on, and the layout lines were applied with the granite and height gage. These were center punched with the optical punch, then the holes were bored. Careful inspection verified the accuracy, everything now matched the drawings.
                  Unfortunately, the idea of using some of the existing parts fell through. Everything from the previous builds was so far off, it either refused to fit or fit so sloppy it was useless. Funny thing, I took some of the gears, and dropped them into the housing, AND THEY WORKED! Of course, they're not perfect, but that will remedied when I make new gears.

                  The moral to the drama playing out is; just because you can machine something, and it looks right....if your measurements aren't right, and your tolerances too loose...the damned thing ISN'T GOING TO WORK!

                  BTW, if anybody is interested, I have all of the issues for the build, from start to finish....Oh, and don't try to second guess Mike.....he's got it pretty well figured out.
                  Last edited by saltmine; 02-27-2012, 09:53 AM.
                  No good deed goes unpunished.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Saltmine,

                    You touch on an important point that's often left out or glossed over. That is, that the first operation is squaring up the stock (unless you a real guarantee that the piece in your hand was done right). And there's a sequence to it. If I recall my teacher's sequence, you first face off one of the sides with the largest area. Then this is placed against the fixed jaw of the vise with a piece of small scrap between it and the moveable jaw to act as an equalizer. If the piece has any irregularity you're not guaranteed flat against the jaw. So now there are two flats at right angles. Flip to do the opposite side of the last and make sure you whack with a deadblow hammer onto the vise or parallels, and then check the parallels at both ends to make sure neither end can be wiggled. So now you can be sure the third side will be parallel to the second (and still square). Now you can do the fourth side and eliminate the piece of scrap. Last you've got the two ends which would be side milling if the piece isn't too deep, or a setup with an angle plate if need be. Also, don't forget to deburr the edges after each milling operation since the burr can throw a piece out of square.

                    Ive seen self taught machinists with years of experience who were both fast and very good at some operations still screw up pieces because they skipped the first steps and made assumptions about squareness that weren't necessarily so.
                    .
                    "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      When you say, "will have" does that mean that you have meticulously checked each and every manufacturer of forming knurls, world wide and ascertained that they not only presently do it that way, but always have in the past and are also firmly pledged to always do so in the future?

                      It was a little while ago, but I seem to recall that the author did use forming knurls in his construction. He may have ground one face flat to sharpen them, I can't remember.

                      I do suspect that if you are making knurls on aluminum, brass, or even mild, unhardened steel, you may very well be able to interchange these different types of tooling. Perhaps with a bit of sharpening if trying to use a forming wheel on a cutting holder.



                      Originally posted by MuellerNick View Post

                      Clearly wrong!
                      A forming wheel will have rounded sides, a cutting one needs sharp edges to be able to cut. You can't use a cutting knurling wheel in a forming action and vice versa.


                      Nick
                      Paul A.
                      SE Texas

                      And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                      You will find that it has discrete steps.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I see a lot about not properly squaring a part before drilling and milling. Here is one of the best tips I have seen for getting a part square with a minimum of work:

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZghLslZZ6sg

                        It is by Joe Pieczynski.
                        Paul A.
                        SE Texas

                        And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                        You will find that it has discrete steps.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Mueller Nick hasn't posted here in a coon's age.

                          Is it Groundhog Day again?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            He still does occasional posts on his You Tube channel. I think he had some health issues. Great guy and seriously clever engineer.
                            West Sussex UK

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