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  • That's what it is yes. The wear if concentric can be taken up by larger rollers, though I am not sure where to get them, Franz Singer will regrind the whole spindle but that's several thousand euros. Play without grease can be up to 15 microns and be in spec.

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    • Geez, Dennis. Are you sure that's not some kind of condom lubricant?

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      • Originally posted by DennisCA View Post
        That's what it is yes. The wear if concentric can be taken up by larger rollers, though I am not sure where to get them,
        you may have to have them made if it comes to that. Bearing manufactures will advertise they will do custom sizes and matched sets, but when I phoned one (NSK I think it was) the guy literally laughed at the notion of supplying one, there'd be huge minimum orders. If you do come up with a source for high precision needle bearings to specific sizes, that would be good info to have. 15 microns is about 1/2 a thou, I have no info one way or the other be intuitively it seems like a lot of play in a spindle? I do not like this format of needle bearings at the bottom, no way to get a proper preload, at least not 15 micros worth.

        If you have or can borrow a micron dial bore gauge, one revealing test is to check along the outer race, it should be a cylinder, but can end up tapered with wear
        Last edited by Mcgyver; 07-11-2019, 10:47 AM.
        in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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        • It would be an interesting and perhaps productive search to see if the required bearings were not an already stocked item.
          Harley Davidson transmissions for example have for decades allowed for incremental clearance adjustments using rollers in standard size, .0004 O/S, .0008 O/S and .001 O/S.
          The link below lists just one model, there are many more options in just this one make. I list these only as a point of reference because I'm somewhat familiar with them. I'd be surprised with the countless applications possible that something is not already on the shelf. Perhaps with the required dimensions someone here may have a source.

          https://www.thegoodoldmotorcyclepart...etail.php?1984
          Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
          Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

          Location: British Columbia

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          • Yes Harley crankpin and trans usually come in 2 tenths increment up to at least a thou over.

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            • Used to hate tire changes. I do it rarely and only on off-street vehicles but I also hate schlepping tires and rims to local guy and wasting his time to put on tractor tires etc.

              The scrapyard harbor freight holder made it marginally better but my old tire spoons range from frustrating to lethal.

              After breaking one putting in a tube, I sprung for a ken-tool tire iron. What took 20 min and a lot of cussing took 1 minute

              Amazing
              "Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment" R.M.Brown

              My shop tour www.plastikosmd.com

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              • I've got the same tire changer, and for the occasional use it works great. I tried to use it last weekend for peel a tire off a rim for a fire pit and I ripped it right out of the stump I lag screwed it to a couple years ago. Guess I need to find another more solid place to mount it now that the stump has started to rot lol.

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                • Originally posted by 754 View Post
                  Yes Harley crankpin and trans usually come in 2 tenths increment up to at least a thou over.
                  Thanks Frank for the clarification. Not having a manual in hand I just grabbed those numbers off of the web.
                  I had thought that there were incrementally finer size divisions available in roller diameters but didn't want to go off half cocked.
                  Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                  Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                  Location: British Columbia

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by plastikosmd View Post
                    Used to hate tire changes. I do it rarely and only on off-street vehicles but I also hate schlepping tires and rims to local guy and wasting his time to put on tractor tires etc.

                    The scrapyard harbor freight holder made it marginally better but my old tire spoons range from frustrating to lethal.

                    After breaking one putting in a tube, I sprung for a ken-tool tire iron. What took 20 min and a lot of cussing took 1 minute

                    Amazing

                    Yes size and shape makes for a huge difference in tire irons.
                    Bought a simple tire changer a few years ago and after modifying the bead breaker to actually survive for more than just one tire I took a look at the supplied tire iron and thought to myself, this will never work. After one tire I knew that I was right. WTF were they thinking when the came up with that design?
                    Having used quality tire irons in the past way more than I wanted to, a quick modification with a welder and an angle grinder had me popping tires on and off just like in the past. Subtle differences in shapes and angles make all the difference.
                    Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                    Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                    Location: British Columbia

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                      you may have to have them made if it comes to that. Bearing manufactures will advertise they will do custom sizes and matched sets, but when I phoned one (NSK I think it was) the guy literally laughed at the notion of supplying one, there'd be huge minimum orders. If you do come up with a source for high precision needle bearings to specific sizes, that would be good info to have. 15 microns is about 1/2 a thou, I have no info one way or the other be intuitively it seems like a lot of play in a spindle? I do not like this format of needle bearings at the bottom, no way to get a proper preload, at least not 15 micros worth.
                      Well you do this test with the bearings dry and the thrust bearings are only finger tight, so the play is greater because as I understand it, the grease fills up the clearance somewhat, and if it's too tight a fit that's also bad.

                      So when the spindle is mounted and everything is lubed properly, the total play is less than this. There's no way to adjust these bearings no, they fit or they don't. The only thing you adjust on this spindle is the end play, that is supposed to be only one micron according to the manual, though I have read 6 microns or .0002" as well. Not really sure, I mean it might have changed depending on model of year.

                      I read a name in relation to this when it came to finding new rollers, Don Sentner, supposed to have an array of needle rollers and cages.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                        you may have to have them made if it comes to that. Bearing manufactures will advertise they will do custom sizes and matched sets, but when I phoned one (NSK I think it was) the guy literally laughed at the notion of supplying one, there'd be huge minimum orders. If you do come up with a source for high precision needle bearings to specific sizes, that would be good info to have. 15 microns is about 1/2 a thou, I have no info one way or the other be intuitively it seems like a lot of play in a spindle? I do not like this format of needle bearings at the bottom, no way to get a proper preload, at least not 15 micros worth.

                        If you have or can borrow a micron dial bore gauge, one revealing test is to check along the outer race, it should be a cylinder, but can end up tapered with wear
                        I did a quick search, Universal Bearing and RBC Beading u sell needles only in a large variety of sizes, but only fixed sizes like 1.5 mm 2 mm, etc. Remember, I am NOT a machinist in real life, I just play one in my garage. Can they be be reduced in size, maybe by centerless grinding? Right now I have a toy lathe, 3 by 8, X and Y axis only, and am getting ready to purchase a real one. I have been checking Craigslist for a 300 mile radious, and have.only found expensive worn out stuff, missing most of the accessories such as extra chuck, rests, etc. Grizzley has a Shop Fox model M1099 10" by 26" , for $2350, delivered, only down side is a 1" spindle hole. Anybody have any experience or knowledge about this unit?

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                        • Willy, this is what I learned. The small change in shape made all the difference
                          "Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment" R.M.Brown

                          My shop tour www.plastikosmd.com

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Corbettprime View Post
                            Grizzley has a Shop Fox model M1099 10" by 26" , for $2350, delivered, only down side is a 1" spindle hole. Anybody have any experience or knowledge about this unit?
                            Looks like a Chinese lathe to me. Not all bad, don't get me wrong. I have the Sieg SC4 and generally it's pretty good. The carriage travel is not accurate to the dial on all the SC4's but I think that might be this model and could even be an effect of conversion to metric at some point.
                            Old-school iron is going to be better but often in poor condition. What you don't get with the Chinese lathes is the hand-fitting you used to get when you were spending more like the cost of a car.... but then, that's why. If you're prepared to adjust things and maybe fettle it a little, it should be quite reasonable.
                            Jealous of a gearbox but not sure if like to go to changing belts for speed change. Although you could always change out the motor control I suppose. You'll always want a larger through-spindle hole...just the way it is, it's never quite big enough. You work round it though - unless you're always working on say 1.25" stock, I wouldn't worry too much. Mine only takes about 7/8". Difficult to work out the size on that one too - it LOOKS smaller than mine but weighs twice as much. Good to have the accessories with it but expect them to be of adequate quality rather than top-brand. You can always upgrade or modify what you find you use most.

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                            • I have been to the scrap yards and some metal working companies nearby and bought off-cuts and looked through the heaps, not pictured is 20-30 kg of stainless 316L I got for 20 euros, really large bolts and off cuts.

                              This is 100kg of various steel, 30 euros, the long square bit I hope to make a bunch of QCTP holders from. It's 60x60mm square, I think my holders are 65-70mm wide, but I hope it will work anyway with slightly narrower ones.


                              25 kg of various steel, mostly mild steel but I hope the 8.8 grade black oxide ones might be carbon steel, 12 euros:


                              There is a lot more and bigger stuff at these places, but I have back issues at the moment and didn't bring a trailer. Just trying to get generalized stuff I think will come in handy.
                              Last edited by DennisCA; 07-12-2019, 04:19 AM.

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                              • Nice haul there Dennis. Works out about scrap metal rates for the stainless. A long way from what they'll sell it to you by the foot when it's shiny!

                                Got the bracket made for my DRO build. Simply slide scale into tube, insert bracket through slot in side of tube and then screw to the bottom of the scale....that you now can't get to. Doh! Back to the drawing board it is then!
                                Some of the pieces I made were basically just shims - a rectangle of metal with a slot in. The only critical dimension was the thickness - and then only in that it matched its partner. They'd have done the job....but I just couldn't bring myself to put such shoddy lumps in the build. *I'D* know they were there. So I started again and got as far as milling the two pieces rectangular to unnecessary fussiness. I really must work out a way of making a table with a fence for the bandsaw!

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