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  • Originally posted by Mike Burch View Post
    "Nail sickness" in oak is a well-known phenomenon in wooden boat maintenance.
    Likely so. Nobody is denying that tannins can cause issues with steel. I mentioned it myself. Toolboxes are not normally floating objects.

    The assertions so far have been that an oak toolbox will rust what is in it, that varnish will have NO effect of preventing that, but, paradoxically, that a layer of extremely porous felt is a barrier to this rusting.

    Datapoints: Nails in boats rust. Tools in oak toolboxes do NOT rust. Toolboxes commonly have felt on at least the bottom inside of drawers and other storage areas. And, that surface is commonly something other than the wood the case is made of, anyhow.

    What is true of nails that s not true of tools? Nails are hammered into oak (or other wood) and contact it rather closely, while tools are only hammered into wood (oak or not) rather rarely.

    So.... I put it to you that the function of felt is to prevent direct contact of tools with oak (or whatever the case is made of), and that the problem will only happen if there is water present to carry tannins to the steel/iron.

    If that toolcase is modified with felt on the contact surfaces, there will be essentially no danger of rust from the oak, unless the mice decide to take that box for a sailing trip.
    1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

    Comment


    • The last link I posted seems to indicate that rust is caused more by the acidity (Ph) of the wood, and not so much by the tannin (tannic acid). That said, oak does have a stronger acid content than many other species. And kiln dried wood probably has less acid content (and water content) than relatively green wood. Also, most furniture, cabinets, and tool boxes probably have had some surface treatment such as linseed oil or shellac which may inhibit transfer of acid fumes and vapors to the tools.
      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
      Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
      USA Maryland 21030

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      • There seem to be a number of sources relating to long-term storage of metal artifacts that go into this issue. As Paul said, it seems to be that the acids (whether tannic or not) that create an acidic atmosphere in the box if not well ventilated. It's quite possible that this may only be an issue if you seal the box up for a few years. Also seems very dependent upon temperature and humidity. My interest - aside from wanting my tools not to rust - is that I bought a 12" Starrett level from ebay and it could do with something nicer to store it in than the cardboard packing it came in! I usually over-think and over-engineer things so I'm trying to get away with being lazy here. Turns out that a 12" level is pretty much the same size as a bottle of wine/spirits so I've ordered a bottle presentation box from Amazon for about 10 bucks. Made of pine, which is listed as "moderate" rather than "severe" on one of those lists of how much it will attack your tools - none were lower than moderate by the way. I'll probably put some of that foam stuff (for protection) that's sold for tool drawer organising and maybe some of the anti-rust mat if I've got the space. Maybe I should add a fan and battery pack for ventilation....no, overthinking it again!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cenedd View Post
          There seem to be a number of sources relating to long-term storage of metal artifacts that go into this issue. As Paul said, it seems to be that the acids (whether tannic or not) that create an acidic atmosphere in the box if not well ventilated. It's quite possible that this may only be an issue if you seal the box up for a few years. Also seems very dependent upon temperature and humidity. My interest - aside from wanting my tools not to rust - is that I bought a 12" Starrett level from ebay and it could do with something nicer to store it in than the cardboard packing it came in! I usually over-think and over-engineer things so I'm trying to get away with being lazy here. Turns out that a 12" level is pretty much the same size as a bottle of wine/spirits so I've ordered a bottle presentation box from Amazon for about 10 bucks. Made of pine, which is listed as "moderate" rather than "severe" on one of those lists of how much it will attack your tools - none were lower than moderate by the way. I'll probably put some of that foam stuff (for protection) that's sold for tool drawer organising and maybe some of the anti-rust mat if I've got the space. Maybe I should add a fan and battery pack for ventilation....no, overthinking it again!
          I put some of that foam drawer liner stuff in my box and the tools stick to the damn stuff after sitting unused for a while..
          “I know lots of people who are educated far beyond their intelligence”

          Lewis Grizzard

          Comment


          • Pretty much EVERYONE is overthinking this.

            We have someone giving a "stern warning" about oak toolboxes. (We get a lot of "stern warnings" here).

            We ALSO have a hundred plus years of history with oak toolboxes. If oak toolboxes were going to rust and ruin tools, there would have been an abandonment of oak and a run to other woods to avoid this issue. We'd all know about it, and Gertstner would have a section of their site explaining why they will not offer an oak toolbox. But there is no such, and oak is still offered.

            Well, toolboxes HAVE changed from oak, but also from every other wood as well, because wood is expensive and metal, or plastic (ugh), is cheap. Nobody suggests (aside from one person here) that storing tools in an oak box is going to ruin them. In fact, the most fancy and expensive toolbox you can buy commercially, offers oak as a standard choice. And that company (Gerstner) has the longest history of making toolboxes of any company still in the business.

            So, who you gonna trust? You gonna believe "Mr Stern Warning"? Or you gonna go with 100 plus years of history and the oldest company in the wood toolbox business?

            All that said, if your box allows the tools to rest on unfinished oak, there could be an issue. Felt cures that issue with oak, or any other wood, the use of felt is not just for looks. And unfinished wood becomes grimy and ugly looking in short order. So finish the wood, and use felt on the surfaces that the tools rest on. Done.
            1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

            If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

            Comment


            • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
              Pretty much EVERYONE is overthinking this.
              Ya think? But that's what we do the best!

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              • Originally posted by Tungsten dipper View Post

                Ya think? But that's what we do the best!
                I don't always overthink it.....sometimes I go off half-cocked and screw it up through under-thinking. It's good to have variety!

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                • Finished my free “side work” project to turn a guy’s belt buckle into an H-D “Points Cover”

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                  Illigitimi non Carborundum 😎
                  9X49 Birmingham Mill, Reid Model 2C Grinder, 13x40 ENCO GH Lathe, 6X18 Craftsman lathe, Sherline CNC mill, Eastwood TIG200 AC/DC and lots of stuff from 30+ years in the trade and 15.5 in refinery unit operations. Now retired. El Paso, TX

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                  • Tim, that's nice work and I'm sure whomever you did it for is tickled pink.
                    Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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                    • Continued cleaning and re-assembling my new-to-me Black and Decker grinder. (eBay find) New 12/3 cord/plug, and a very complete cleaning, re-greasing, etc. Skimmed the armature. Looks to be about 1940's vintage. Brushes are still good, nameplate rating is for 10 amps at 5,000 RPM. It had been severely neglected/abused. Now it'll be good again. Taking it into work on Monday, I got sick and tired of hearing younger guys yell about how I'm gonna burn up the grinder. Um, nope. Been doing this as long as they've been alive, and I have yet to burn up anything.

                      Pics are from the seller.


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                      • Nice. They don't make 'em like they used to. Don't reckon there will be working usable tools from the current day being posted about in 80 years time.

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                        • Heyyo, you got one! That one's newer than the 40s, the 40s ones were hex body and had a different grip. Could well be 50s though.
                          21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                          1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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                          • Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post
                            Heyyo, you got one! That one's newer than the 40s, the 40s ones were hex body and had a different grip. Could well be 50s though.
                            Hey, thanks for the heads-up! I'm not very skilled at Black & Decker history. All I know is, DeWalt screwed the whole world over when they bought them out and discontinued them. And IMHO the DeWalt of today is overpriced consumer junk made offshore.

                            By any chance would you have a lead or a link to a supplier for the carbon Brushes in the Black and Decker motors? The brushes in mine still exist, worn about 1/2 way -- but I can tell that one of them isn't happy by the way it sparks. Otherwise its a beast that runs beautifully!

                            EDIT to add: it's kinda strange, only one brush is complaining, the other one is OK. Both move freely in their holders. Everything has been scrubbed clean with rifle brushes and CRC contact cleaner. If the armature was having problems, then both brushes would be bouncing and sparking. But only the one is sparking regardless of orientation. Maybe a weak spring?
                            Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 11-26-2020, 12:04 PM.

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                            • While not helping with cooking or dishes, I have been cleaning up in the shop.

                              When I get tired of cleaning, or decide something unfinished is in the way, I either finish it, or move it forward somewhat. As with these..... this toolbox has been sitting around for years, beause I had to take everything off of it, take it to pieces, and re-assemble it.

                              So today, the drawers were getting in my way, so they got their handles back (split rivets painted, with tubular brass rivets as spacers, that's OEM), and felt put in them. Then back in the box they went.





                              And another one got a storage area for the loose dial indicators fixed up. They are lug back, and go into slots

                              Last edited by J Tiers; 11-27-2020, 12:08 AM. Reason: Split "rivets", not pins, and "tubular" rivets as spacers
                              1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                              Comment


                              • Nice job, Jerry. I love those old machinist’s chests.
                                I cut it off twice; it's still too short
                                Oregon, USA

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