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Will Mig weld stick to a carbide insert?

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  • Will Mig weld stick to a carbide insert?

    Hello all

    I have made a nice ball turner. I stuffed up with the way I planned to support the insert laterally. I am planning on mounting an insert in its correct location and putting a spot of mig on either side of the insert.

    I have seen it on here but I think it was braized or silver solder that was used.

    Thanks for any imput y'all

    my inserts are (KYOCERA DNMG 432 CARBIDE INSERTS , GRADE CA5525)

  • #2
    Originally posted by michael3fingers
    Hello all

    I have made a nice ball turner. I stuffed up with the way I planned to support the insert laterally. I am planning on mounting an insert in its correct location and putting a spot of mig on either side of the insert.

    my inserts are (KYOCERA DNMG 432 CARBIDE INSERTS , GRADE CA5525)
    Are you hoping that it won't stick (that being the case where your mig spots are to build up the insert pocket) or wishing that it would?

    I've no experience trying to stick weld to carbide but I'm dubious. If it's the pocket you want I've heard it recommended to smoke or carbon coat the part you don't want to adhere to brazing compound.

    If you want to secure the insert I'd go for braze or silver solder knowing that it's commonly used and it's a process I'm comfortable with.
    .
    "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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    • #3
      thanks mate

      I wasn't that clear.

      I dont want it to stick so that I have a pocket for the insert.

      I would sacrafice an insert if I needed too as long as I could remove it and have a fairly smooth edge. I have some copper packing here I might just hold that against the insert and flow a bit of a bead around it...

      mmm

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      • #4
        The weld won't penetrate. It may "stick" because the weld bead moves a little while cooling or because the insert is slightly tapered, etc.

        So I don't know whether or not what you are planning will work, but I DO know that the weld won't melt the carbide insert.

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        • #5
          Why not just weld it and then cut it correctly? I've fixed several mildly crashed commercial tools (carbide boring bars and face mills) like this.
          Russ
          Master Floor Sweeper

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          • #6
            but I DO know that the weld won't melt the carbide insert.
            Oh yes it will, and easily too. The cobalt binder has a melting temperature of 2723 Fahrenheit which is within reach of oxy/a, never mind a welder. That is how they recycle carbide, heat it until the cobalt melts out and the carbide is left as a porous skeleton. Also, sniffing cobalt fumes is a bad idea and welding carbide will release them in quantity.
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            • #7
              Yea this just seems like a bad idea.. and thats comming from the king of bad ideas.

              Consider grinding back, milling a pocket on some scrap and then welding your pocket on to your toolpost?

              Or just weld to deposit material, annel and mill it back into a pocket..

              Or go to a clamp system.
              Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Evan
                Oh yes it will, and easily too. The cobalt binder has a melting temperature of 2723 Fahrenheit which is within reach of oxy/a, never mind a welder.
                I posted this picture before: during one of our famous raging debates -- can you weld HSS: as an experiment I TIG welded some 5/16" HSS to a mild steel bar. I measured the hardness in several spots with a Rockwell hardness tester, and it lost about 10 points of hardness in the HAZ.

                I tried a second time just tack-welding the HSS, but you can see that the HAZ extends almost all the way out to the tip.

                That's the reason why carbide and HSS inserts are brazed on...

                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                • #9
                  Thats pertty cool, welding HSS that is..

                  I wonder if the anneling 'zone' could be reduced to a useful level using a heatsink, or a water bath or something.

                  Did you try any destructive tests of the weld? It doesnt look like it perticularly enjoyed flowing/penitrating the HSS. Would be intresting to see how strong it is.
                  Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                  • #10
                    Why not make up an insert from copper, put it in place, and weld up as required?

                    TC

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evan
                      Oh yes it will, and easily too. The cobalt binder has a melting temperature of 2723 Fahrenheit which is within reach of oxy/a, never mind a welder.

                      Forgot about the cobalt. Damn. I'm still curious about exactly what would happen. May have to try it sometime on some scrap carbide.

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                      • #12
                        What happens will depend on the amount of cobalt I am sure. I haven't intentionally tried it but I have overheated a carbide tooth on my stump grinder. It turns kind of ratty and won't braze at all. It doesn't turn to liquid since the tungsten carbide doesn't melt but the cobalt sublimes or something. Some carbides only have a few percent cobalt and some have a lot more.

                        For the benefit of those who haven't heard, inhaling cobalt dust or fumes from grinding tungsten carbide can cause serious damage. It is responsible in small quantities for what is called "Hard metal disease" which is chronic lung problems. In larger quantities such as might be inhaled from burnt carbide it can cause serious liver damage and destroys red blood cells. The OSHA maximum exposure limit is very low.
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                        • #13
                          "I am planning on mounting an insert in its correct location and putting a spot of mig on either side of the insert."

                          Presuming short-arc transfer,(a low energy arc), success is likely. Make arc contact away from the insert and push the puddle to its edge. Even cold lapped metal will serve your purpose.

                          Evan is entirely correct about breathing the vapour.

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