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A man and his invention. Safety first!

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  • Tony Ennis
    replied
    then I have a hard time laying the blame on the machine manufacturer.
    Unless it isn't urban rumor, I believe the Oliver Tool Company was finished off by a lawsuit. Someone was injured by a tool they sold 30 years previously (and had been resold a few times) and had had it's safeties removed by one of the owners. Somehow the jury found Oliver responsible.

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  • andy_b
    replied
    The SawStop has been discussed here many times. Here is what I believe was the first time. My opinion of it is still the same.

    http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...hlight=sawstop

    andy b.

    Leave a comment:


  • KiddZimaHater
    replied
    I've already invented a 'finger-saver' for the table saw.....
    It's called a 'push-stick'!
    SHESH

    Leave a comment:


  • john hobdeclipe
    replied
    Here's a link to a good article about the Ryobi lawsuit:

    http://www.woodshopnews.com/news/new...ts-15m-verdict

    There's something about this that bugs the crap out of me.

    The worker who suffered the injury is from Colombia. Notice in paragraph 4 that he still needs a translator, after all these years.

    I have to wonder if anyone ever told him of the dangers of the table saw, and if so, did he understand?

    This Ryobi table saw is no different from millions of other saws in use throughout the country, and indeed the world. Yes, they're dangerous, but if you've never used one, or perhaps never even seen one, and nobody ever explained the danger to you, then I have a hard time laying the blame on the machine manufacturer. Where was this guy's supervisor? It's his responsibility to explain this stuff to the workers, and to ascertain that the workers understand the dangers and the proper usage and procedures.

    And don't raise the issue of "common sense." That's rubbish.

    I can remember my first days in a production woodworking environment, when I had never seen or used anything more powerful than a handsaw and an electric drill. Absolutely NOTHING about the machinery was "common sense" to me. Fortunately, I had an endless series of hazards pointed out to me before it was too late.

    Don't get me started on some of the stupid management irresponsible behavior I've seen during my years in the furniture and millwork factories; I'll be up all night typing and fuming.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rustybolt
    replied
    My friend with the cabinet shop has that thing or something very much like it.
    The consumable part costs something like $150.00, but it's worth it to avoid workers comp. or possibly being sued.
    So far it's been tested twice and it works.

    Leave a comment:


  • macona
    replied
    The saws are made in considerably smaller numbers. I am sure if production increased the price difference would be less.

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  • Tony Ennis
    replied
    The settlement will likely be thrown out or greatly reduced on the appeal.

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  • paulsv
    replied
    [QUOTE=macona]
    Apparently Ryobi or one other company was going to license it and then changed their minds later. Told the sawstop guys safety dosnt sell.

    ...


    Does not double the cost of the saw. The cabinet model is in line with the price of a Delta Unisaw and is very good quality. ...QUOTE]


    Actually, from what I have read, pretty much all of the saw manufacturers looked at it, and rejected it. Might have had someting to do with the amount of royalties he was asking for.

    Powermatic Contractors Saw w/ 52" fence for $1,199:

    http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/206...-and-Legs.aspx

    Sawstop Contractors Saw w/ 52" fence for $1,839:

    http://shopping.hermance.com/Brands/...e-Fence-System

    I know that Powermatic makes a pretty high quality contractor's saw. I haven't been able to see a Sawstop saw yet. When I replace my existing saw, I'd like to have the choice to choose one or the other, rather than being forced to spend the extra $640 for the Sawstop device. But since the judge and jury gave Mr. Osario $1.5 Million of Ryobi's money, for selling the same art as everyone else is selling, other than Sawstop, I doubt we will have that choice much longer. Mr. Osario gets his $1.5 million, and we all lose our choice. Bad law and bad policy, in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • MuellerNick
    Guest replied
    Saying that this promotes user's stupidity and carelessness is like saying an airbag or seat belt in a car promotes the same.
    Did your driving instructor teach you not to stop at the red light because you do have a seat belt?
    Is there a table-saw instructor in every home shop?


    Nick

    Leave a comment:


  • 2ManyHobbies
    replied
    Originally posted by apo
    I love statistics.
    Why?
    Because statistics predict the future.

    Picture this, you've been a carpenter/handyman for 35 years. That spinning blade is so familiar, it's almost your friend. With (or most likely without) the blade guard on, you're taking a 5" off an MDF shelf, it sticks on some residual sap on your fence then un-sticks and now you're less three fingers on your right hand.
    It doesn't matter how safe you've been for the past 34 years, you just lost three fingers.

    Statistics.

    You've been sticking your hands within 5" of that blade for 35 years.
    The number 1 has been added to the count of people unfortunate enough to have maimed themselves using a table saw this year.

    This device, however annoying or costly has only one job: reducing that statistic. Everybody makes mistakes, slips, overlooks safety.

    I'd rather run my fingers through a saw with SAWSTOP than the alternative.
    That's not statistics. That's improper use of a table saw. If the work is too small to safely guide with fingers then you use other material or a push stick. If there is plenty of room, at no time do you ever have a digit in line with the blade. Of course, I'm also having trouble with how one manages to maim themselves with properly adjusted guards and blade heights.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tony Ennis
    replied
    Does not double the cost of the saw. The cabinet model is in line with the price of a Delta Unisaw and is very good quality. Cannot be added to a saw, the design is integral to the saw.
    It does double the cost unless every saw in your shop (or on your worksite) happens to be a Unisaw. Lots of places get by on lesser saws.

    This also means that ever saw purchased must be from their company and that every saw in existence right now is irresponsibly dangerous and obsolete.

    The Holy Grail of American business is to invent something then get legislation passed that requires it be used.

    Leave a comment:


  • gnm109
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by macona
    Gosh, here we go again...

    The mechanism used the transfer of momentum to drop the blade down. Thats one of the reasons it moves as fast as it does.

    Apparently Ryobi or one other company was going to license it and then changed their minds later. Told the sawstop guys safety dosnt sell.

    Saying that this promotes user's stupidity and carelessness is like saying an airbag or seat belt in a car promotes the same.

    Wet wood , from SawStop's site:



    Does not double the cost of the saw. The cabinet model is in line with the price of a Delta Unisaw and is very good quality. Cannot be added to a saw, the design is integral to the saw.

    TechShop in Durham has one and they have only set it off once. Apparently there was a piece of metal sandwiched in the wood.

    If I was the insurance underwriter for a cabinet shop I wouldnt insure without these being in the shop.

    I understood that the units have to be built in to the saws when they are new. Is this correct? It would be rather expensive to change all of the machinery. It does appear to be a good idea but rather expensive initially.
    Last edited by ; 05-21-2010, 11:45 AM.

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  • macona
    replied
    Gosh, here we go again...

    The mechanism used the transfer of momentum to drop the blade down. Thats one of the reasons it moves as fast as it does.

    Apparently Ryobi or one other company was going to license it and then changed their minds later. Told the sawstop guys safety dosnt sell.

    Saying that this promotes user's stupidity and carelessness is like saying an airbag or seat belt in a car promotes the same.

    Wet wood , from SawStop's site:

    In the vast majority of cases, cutting green or damp wood is not a problem.

    Wet pressure-treated wood may cause the safety system to shut off the motor or even activate the safety system’s brake. The chemicals used to pressure treat wood often contain large amounts of copper and can significantly increase the wood’s conductivity when wet. Allowing wet pressure treated wood to dry unstacked for 24 hours is typically sufficient to adequately reduce internal and surface moisture levels.
    Does not double the cost of the saw. The cabinet model is in line with the price of a Delta Unisaw and is very good quality. Cannot be added to a saw, the design is integral to the saw.

    TechShop in Durham has one and they have only set it off once. Apparently there was a piece of metal sandwiched in the wood.

    If I was the insurance underwriter for a cabinet shop I wouldnt insure without these being in the shop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carld
    replied
    And the first time it fails to stop and cuts someone expecting it to stop there will be the biggest lawsuit ever. Think Toyota.

    Leave a comment:


  • Richard-TX
    replied
    The guy that invented the GFCI used to demo it my placing his daughter into a bathtub and throwing in a live extension cord. He sold a bunch of GFCIs that way.

    Leave a comment:

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