Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT; Don't need 220. Need 110 at 20amp. Can I convert it?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OT; Don't need 220. Need 110 at 20amp. Can I convert it?

    This is sort of on topic,

    I have an electrical panel that is full. I need / want to put in a 20 amp 110 circuit for my knee mill and a 20 amp 110 circuit for my small welder.

    The only circuit not used is a 220 outlet for my dryer, which is gas, not electric. It has a NEMA 10-30R receptacle. My understanding is that it is dual voltage, no ground.

    I was wondering if I could safely replace the breaker with a [edit] 110 [/edit] 20 amp breaker and replace the socket with a NEMA 5-20R.

    That leaves the question of how to get a ground to the outlet.... There is a grounded 15 amp circuit 2 feet away. Is it a bad idea to bond the ground to that?

    Eventually I'll have proper circuits run, but I need to clean out the garage to be able to reach everything.

    Thanks

    Dan
    Last edited by danlb; 05-23-2010, 05:36 PM.
    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

  • #2
    You could.....

    You could do that but you would be much better off pulling that 220 breaker and putting 2 110V breakers in its place and have 2 more 110v circuits that you could use in the shop.

    Is there any reason why you need that many circuits in your shop? Are you running multiple machines at the same time under load? Most of the time you can use 1 circuit for multiple machines as they are not in use at the same time.

    Comment


    • #3
      The 220 circuit must have a ground but it doesn't need to have a neutral. That gives you three wires. The wiring is probably 10 gauge. You can change wire colours by taping the insulation with the correct colour tape on each wire. You can repurpose the neutral to be a ground by taping the wire green. You are allowed to use either 14 or 12 gauge wire on standard 110 breakers and outlets. If the in place wiring is 10 gauge then in the panel and the outlet box use Marrette connectors to connect the 10 gauge to 12 gauge for the actual connection to the breaker and outlet. The code doesn't mind if you use heavier wire as long as the connections are made with the proper gauge at each end and the correct protection devices are used.

      Also, you are allowed to run your 20 amp 110vac welder on a 15 amp outlet but the duty cycle will be reduced. Welders are permitted to overload a circuit up to 200%, spot welders up to 300%.
      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

      Comment


      • #4
        why not use the 30amp 220 circuit to go to an aux. 30 amp box ? keeps prying fingers out of the main box. . . .

        Comment


        • #5
          An electric dryer would allow 4 more circuits, potentially. Depends on the breaker positions already used.

          Your 220 Gas dryer would, as mentioned possibly get you 2 120V 20A circuits.
          1601

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kf2qd
            You could do that but you would be much better off pulling that 220 breaker and putting 2 110V breakers in its place and have 2 more 110v circuits that you could use in the shop.
            Sorry, I should have been clearer. I do plan to replace the 220 breaker with a pair of 110. I don't anticipate needing 220 in the near future.


            Originally posted by kf2qd
            Is there any reason why you need that many circuits in your shop? Are you running multiple machines at the same time under load? Most of the time you can use 1 circuit for multiple machines as they are not in use at the same time.
            I do not have any 20 amp circuits in my garage. I have a single 15 amp to run all my machines. I seldom leave one running while working on another. My mill pulls 28 amps at start (highest spindle speed) according to my kill-a-watt, then settles down to under 10 amps.

            Originally posted by Evan
            Also, you are allowed to run your 20 amp 110vac welder on a 15 amp outlet but the duty cycle will be reduced. Welders are permitted to overload a circuit up to 200%, spot welders up to 300%.
            200% ??? That's encouraging. I'm finding that MY duty cycle is a few seconds of weld per 10 minutes of setup and inspection. The welder can handle 20% duty cycle. The manual says it needs 25 amps to do thicker metals. That was my main reason for pursuing the question. I've also heard that it's a good idea to have a dedicated circuit for the welders to minimize spikes and noise.

            Originally posted by Evan
            You can re-purpose the neutral to be a ground by taping the wire green. You are allowed to use either 14 or 12 gauge wire on standard 110 breakers and outlets.
            That makes so much sense. The black becomes hot, red becomes ground and neutral remains what it currently is.

            Dan
            At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Evan
              . You can change wire colours by taping the insulation with the correct colour tape on each wire..
              Umm....errrrrr.... I think this is one little tip I will try to forget.

              Comment


              • #8
                Color coding wire with tape is a fairly common practice in commercial settings. I've seen it in many buildings.

                Dan
                At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Artful Bodger
                  Umm....errrrrr.... I think this is one little tip I will try to forget.
                  Actually, that is standard practice.
                  Mike

                  My Dad always said, "If you want people to do things for you on the farm, you have to buy a machine they can sit on that does most of the work."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    yes it is allowed under the code as long as it is done at every termination point.
                    But if you redesignate a neutral as ground, you can no longer use it as a neutral.
                    Last edited by MaxHeadRoom; 05-23-2010, 06:54 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK, but I would never do it as I do not trust tape to stay on forever.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Artful Bodger
                        OK, but I would never do it as I do not trust tape to stay on forever.
                        Inside a panel box it will last almost indefinitely. In the very highly unlikely event that you might find tape fallen off, rewrap the wire with new tape before, or immediately after you disconnect it.
                        Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Breaker Replacement

                          You can replace any standard 110 volt breaker with a tandem breaker (2 breakers in 1 assembly the same thickness as a standard breaker) and get 2 separate 110 volt circuits in the original single space. In your case, you can even replace your 220 breaker with a 2 tandems or a single quad breaker. This will give you 4 separate 110 volt circuits. Of course you will have to install the actual wiring and assorted components to actually use all these additional circuits. Since I do not know the layout of your panel board or shop I will not try to tell you how to wire up these additional circuits. Just be aware that modern codes require both neutrals and grounds on 110 volt circuits.

                          (Also note that many older homes and buildings do not have ground connections.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Arcane
                            Inside a panel box it will last almost indefinitely. In the very highly unlikely event that you might find tape fallen off, rewrap the wire with new tape before, or immediately after you disconnect it.
                            I would be more concerned that someone in the future would cut into the line somewhere and install a mis-wired outlet socket.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They deserve to be fried if they are trying that on what is (was) obviously a 220 volt cable without checking the termination at the panel first. That scenario is vanishingly unlikely.

                              You are forgetting and probably not familiar with split phase wiring that we use.
                              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X